Victoroos

Upper Deck door, undefined > bot Sode jetway

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Hi all

 

I was wondering, whether someone already figured out what te coordinates are of the upper deck door, and how to put it in the aircraft CFG to be able to connect the jetway? (via sode)

 

vkr

victor

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The upper deck door is for emergency use only, not for passenger use. As it opens upwards, it is not compatible with a normal jetway. I don't believe that any airline has ever used the upper deck door for passengers or even service vehicles.

 

EDIT: talking about the 747 here. Obviously the A380 does use the upper deck doors.

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12 hours ago, Victoroos said:

I was wondering, whether someone already figured out what te coordinates are of the upper deck door, and how to put it in the aircraft CFG to be able to connect the jetway? (via sode)

Even maintenance rarely use the upper deck doors (except if there is no air conditioning available and cooling airflow on the upper deck is required). For maintenance purposes, they can be opened electrically on the ground.

 

6 hours ago, 77west said:

I don't believe that any airline has ever used the upper deck door for passengers or even service vehicles.

The floor-mounted slide assembly takes up half of the entrance. On the main deck, the slides are in the doors.

Open door

https://aviation-safety.net/photos/displayphoto.php?id=990201&vnr=1&kind=E

Maintenance may use a scissor lift to take heavy items (such as slide assemblies, ovens and chillers (refrigeration units)) up to these doors.


Cheers

JHW

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1 hour ago, Qavion2 said:

Even maintenance rarely use the upper deck doors (except if there is no air conditioning available and cooling airflow on the upper deck is required). For maintenance purposes, they can be opened electrically on the ground.

 

The floor-mounted slide assembly takes up half of the entrance. On the main deck, the slides are in the doors.

Open door

https://aviation-safety.net/photos/displayphoto.php?id=990201&vnr=1&kind=E

Maintenance may use a scissor lift to take heavy items (such as slide assemblies, ovens and chillers (refrigeration units)) up to these doors.


Cheers

JHW

True about maintenance using it on occasion; by service vehicles I meant galley / cleaning etc. Normal day to day service vehicles. I have seen them opened for airflow as well a few times.

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When I worked maintenance, I remember opening those doors anytime the airplane sat outside the hangar on the ramp. It takes no time at all for that upper deck to get really hot and the ventilation was always welcome. But no one ever went in and out those doors, not only because they're so high off the ground but because the slide is in the way. You can see from the photo above that the bottom third of the door is sheetmetal structure only. The slide is  not attached to the door, so when you open it, the slide stays behind on the floor and blocks the opening. So it really isn't a means to access/exit the airplane (at least the way UAL had those configured).

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Yes I often saw them open at Cape Town or JNB airport during turnaround, presumably for ventilation. Ditto for the cockpit escape hatch. Kinda look like batmobile wing doors or something.

 

Question, are they still a plug type door; or are they latched like the cargo doors? I found this video which appears to show the door lift upwards slightly before opening outwards, which implies it is a plug door:

 

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25 minutes ago, 77west said:

Question, are they still a plug type door; or are they latched like the cargo doors?

I couldn't tell you for sure; it's been almost twenty years since I left, so all I can remember is them swinging outward, but I've completely forgotten what the latching mechanism was like.

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Most of the 744 doors have a latching mechanism of some description, including the main deck and upper deck doors. The upper deck door does lift up by 2 inches (5cm) and moves inboard at the top by 0.4 inch (1cm) . The main and upper deck doors have latches half way up the door.

I guess the door is a semi-plug type (at the top and bottom). Because it doesn't twist sideways like the main deck doors, I can't see how it can be a full plug type door. The door opening mechanism is latched electrically when the aircraft takes off to prevent opening in flight.

Cheers

JHW

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On 09/04/2017 at 0:11 PM, Qavion2 said:

Most of the 744 doors have a latching mechanism of some description, including the main deck and upper deck doors. The upper deck door does lift up by 2 inches (5cm) and moves inboard at the top by 0.4 inch (1cm) . The main and upper deck doors have latches half way up the door.

I guess the door is a semi-plug type (at the top and bottom). Because it doesn't twist sideways like the main deck doors, I can't see how it can be a full plug type door. The door opening mechanism is latched electrically when the aircraft takes off to prevent opening in flight.

Cheers

JHW

I suppose by that metric all the doors are semi plug - as the main deck doors are only plug style along the vertical axis, not the horizontal axis, otherwise they would not be able to swing outwards at all. I think the more modern 777/787 style doors are also only plug type along the horizontal axis; similar to the 744 upper deck door, they lift upwards and then outwards.

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5 hours ago, 77west said:

I suppose by that metric all the doors are semi plug - as the main deck doors are only plug style along the vertical axis, not the horizontal axis,

No, the main deck doors are fully plugged. It's very difficult to describe, but the top and bottom of the doors have folding sections which reduce the height of the door (the folding sections are only visible from the outside). When the door is opened, The door just doesn't pivot outwards, it moves inwards then the door moves through the hole in the fuselage sideways (so the vertical edges of the door don't hit the edges of the hole).

It's not the electronics of the 744 which amazes me, it's the inventiveness of the designers of the mechanical bits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHn5ZHV4HvU

 

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I do remember boarding it once via the upper deck. like 10 years ago. But okay, :D. Thanks for the more than interesting read!.

So , which two doors are used for dual jetway operation? :O

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3 hours ago, Victoroos said:

I do remember boarding it once via the upper deck. like 10 years ago.

So did you have to jump across from the edge of the jetway to the door? Only asking because given the way the door opens (up), it would be impossible for the jetway to even be in contact with the plane without hitting the upper deck door. Unless you're getting it confused with an A380.

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5 hours ago, Victoroos said:

I do remember boarding it once via the upper deck. like 10 years ago.

 

You would never do this as a passenger. You would have to climb over the evacuation slide assembly sitting in the doorway. I also think you must be confused. :wink:

 

Look at this video (at about 9 seconds). The door opens and there is a large object sitting in the doorway. The only time this moves is when the slide is deployed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5F1s-huEiA

 

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On 11/04/2017 at 0:31 AM, Qavion2 said:

No, the main deck doors are fully plugged. It's very difficult to describe, but the top and bottom of the doors have folding sections which reduce the height of the door (the folding sections are only visible from the outside). When the door is opened, The door just doesn't pivot outwards, it moves inwards then the door moves through the hole in the fuselage sideways (so the vertical edges of the door don't hit the edges of the hole).

It's not the electronics of the 744 which amazes me, it's the inventiveness of the designers of the mechanical bits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHn5ZHV4HvU

 

I remember seeing that video now, I knew that one door had the flaps that move inwards, just forgot it was the 744! That said I think the 737 and 757 have a similar flap that moves inwards.

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On ‎12‎-‎4‎-‎2017 at 3:20 PM, Qavion2 said:

 

You would never do this as a passenger. You would have to climb over the evacuation slide assembly sitting in the doorway. I also think you must be confused. :wink:

 

Look at this video (at about 9 seconds). The door opens and there is a large object sitting in the doorway. The only time this moves is when the slide is deployed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5F1s-huEiA

 

Oh, Yeah, remember that too. It is isn't it. How to pack as much as possible in it.

She will be missed. One of the latest true innovations.

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For pilots, they tell us these are not plug type doors, thus the flight lock mechanism for the handle. Maybe for you mechanic types, they are really semi-plug type doors, but they don't tell us that.

Normally, the Blue Door Ground Mode light is illuminated on the ground when the pin locking mechanism for the handle is unlocked. In the air, the Blue Ground Mode light extinguishes, with the door handle locking automatically. If the light stays illuminated in the air, an EICAS message for the Upper Door appeared and we had to position a Flight Attendant at the door with less than 3 psi to prevent the door from possibly being opened inflight, because it is not a plug type door, and would open up and out, presumably being ripped off the fuselage. Above 3 psi, it was not necessary to position the FA at the door because there was no threat of anyone being physically able to open the door at higher psi's.

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5 hours ago, Captain_Al said:

For pilots, they tell us these are not plug type doors, thus the flight lock mechanism for the handle. Maybe for you mechanic types, they are really semi-plug type doors, but they don't tell us that.

It just seems strange that the doors have to go upwards (and inwards at the top).

Shouldn't higher psi's assist the opening of a non-plug type?

(EDIT) Just found a section in the maintenance manual which says it is a plug type.Reference AMM 52-23-00 page 1.

Cheers

JHW

P.S. I remember checking the Upper Deck Door inflight locking actuators on the ground by putting a spanner over the air/ground sensors on the nose. With hydraulics off, it is possible to force some systems into air mode by just fooling the nose gear sensors. I seem to recall it also affected electrical system loadshedding, which caused various side effects in the cabin.

 

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All I know is there is a procedure for the upper deck door for low PSI situations with the door handle unlocked inflight. For higher PSI's, there is no threat, thus no FA by the door, with the upper deck door handle unlocked.

We must not be thinking of this right, because I am thinking the same way you are that higher PSI's would actually assist in opening a non-plug door. We were told at the higher PSI, you will not be able to move the handle, not that I would want to try, if the handle is unlocked inflight.

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7 hours ago, Captain_Al said:

All I know is there is a procedure for the upper deck door for low PSI situations with the door handle unlocked inflight. For higher PSI's, there is no threat, thus no FA by the door, with the upper deck door handle unlocked.

Yes, I've applied this MEL a few times. It may be because:

the plug is not as good as the main deck doors (It appears to be only on the top and bottom, not the sides)

the geometry of the door mechanism allows greater force to be applied to the door

the door is smaller (?), so less force is required to open it

Cheers

JHW

 

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Sounds reasonable to me, I did not realize it had plug characteristics on the top and bottom, probably not designed to hold it if it opened inflight. But, it qualifies for a semi-plug type door.

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Just to clarify, my options were more speculation than known facts, Captain Al ;) The opening sequence seemed to suggest that the top and bottom were part of the plug. There may be something in the mechanism I've overlooked. :wink:

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