HiFlyer

Windows 10 Creators Update Privacy Invasion & Etc

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His comment about it being a nightmare to avoid using your Windows Live login as your Windows 10 login simply isn't true. When I installed Windows 10, it asked me if I wanted to use my Windows Live login and I said no and used a local login - how is that a nightmare? Frankly, anyone using a Windows Live login for Windows 10 deserves to have all of their data stolen. As far as Microsoft key-logging every key stroke you make, if that was the case (and if it was so easy to prove it) Microsoft would have collapsed by now under the weight of privacy lawyers worldwide jumping on them. Just think of the bandwidth you'd need, not to mention the amount of storage required, to log all of the keystrokes of the hundreds of millions of users around the world potentially at their keyboards at any one time.

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10 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

As far as Microsoft key-logging every key stroke you make, if that was the case (and if it was so easy to prove it) Microsoft would have collapsed by now under the weight of privacy lawyers worldwide jumping on them.

Microsoft's own statement, and where the keylogging claims came from.

Quote

[When you] enter text, we may collect typed characters and use them for purposes such as improving autocomplete and spellcheck features.

 

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6 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

Microsoft's own statement, and where the keylogging claims came from.

 

But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's all being sent to Microsoft for analysis and storage. Every time you use Google (or any other search engine, for that matter) it tries to autocomplete your search request and has done for years. How is that any different? It's nothing new.

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15 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

But that doesn't necessarily mean that it's all being sent to Microsoft for analysis. Every time you use Google (or any other search engine, for that matter) it tries to autocomplete your search request and has done for years. How is that any different? It's nothing new.

That "We may collect" is pretty clear. Who and where else would it being sent to?

Secondly, you just kind of confirmed the hypothesis of the video poster, that MS is doing this to get in on the lucrative action in a way and level of detail that Google and others can't match. At the OS level.

Other than that, I've never subscribed to the the 'You've already been mugged, so what's another mugging going to hurt" School of internet privacy. The programs mentioned in the video are proactive ways (and there are many) to take back some personal control of your information, if its worth it to you.

And how can you know if it's worth it to you, if nobody even tells what's happening?

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Haven't we been down this road before, when Windows 10 released?  No offense to HiFlyer, but why should we be perpetuating the paranoia and fear?  Look, I'll level with you and anyone else here.  I really could care less if Microsoft or the NSA cares to snoop on my computer.  I have nothing to hide, I lead a boring life with my wife and my cat.  I have no desire whatsoever to partake in social media, since I get enough drama on flightsim forums as it is. If they have some reason to track my habits, then I obviously went somewhere I shouldn't have, and that's on me.  Everything on my computer is as kosher as Christmas.  I don't surf the dark web looking for cheap viagra or that nice Nigerian Prince (please help this guy out!).

Just last fall, my wife and I took our yearly vacation in London, for the third time.  We absolutely love it there.  Everywhere we went, there were cameras and cops.  Did we feel oppressed or fearful?  Heck no.  Sure, I'm not a big fan of interrogation at the airport, but I understand why they do what they do.  Search my bags? sure, got nothing to hide.  Bodyscan or frisk, why not, you're doing your job.  Whatever security is in place on my OS, hey that's fine to, because we all own a license to run the software (and for a lot of us, free), but we don't own the software.  Microsoft can dictate whatever terms they see fit, within the confines of the law, because the software is theirs.

Anyways, let's all relax.  Unless you have something to hide, you have nothing to worry about and as long as the OS continues to run like a champ, I have no complaints. :cool:

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4 minutes ago, Jimm said:

Anyways, let's all relax.  Unless you have something to hide, you have nothing to worry about and as long as the OS continues to run like a champ, I have no complaints. :cool:

And that's why we're individuals; not everyone feels the same about these things, and it would probably be pretty boring if we did. The (growing) popularity of VPN's and other sorts of encryption, as well as anonymizers, distributed network browsers, programs like shutup 10 and etc, show that there is a broad diversity of opinion.

To be fair, I wouldn't characterize your lack of concern in any other way than a personal choice, and alternatively, I wouldn't characterize others personal choice as paranoia and fear.

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21 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

And that's why we're individuals; not everyone feels the same about these things, and it would probably be pretty boring if we did. The (growing) popularity of VPN's and other sorts of encryption, as well as anonymizers, distributed network browsers, programs like shutup 10 and etc, show that there is a broad diversity of opinion.

To be fair, I wouldn't characterize your lack of concern in any other way than a personal choice, and alternatively, I wouldn't characterize others personal choice as paranoia and fear.

Honestly, the argument for or against what Microsoft is doing (or not doing) will never end and as you say, everyone will have differing opinons and that's fine too, but I personally think that people are trying to make something from nothing.

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7 minutes ago, Jimm said:

Honestly, the argument for or against what Microsoft is doing (or not doing) will never end and as you say, everyone will have differing opinons and that's fine too, but I personally think that people are trying to make something from nothing.

And that's why my initial post was deliberately short and contained no personal opinion from myself; simply the video, presented as an alternative viewpoint, to be taken or left as individuals prefer.

You may find the video unnecessary. Others may find the information either useful or as a jumping off point to look deeper into the issue.

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7 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

And that's why my initial post was deliberately short and contained no personal opinion from myself; simply the video, presented as an alternative viewpoint, to be taken or left as individuals prefer.

You may find the video unnecessary. Others may find the information either useful or as a jumping off point to look deeper into the issue.

So riddle me this: Since the Creator's Update has streamlined the privacy settings, are you going to suggest that they did this to allay people's fears about privacy, lulling them into a false sense of security, for the sake of Microsoft being able to track people easier?  I'm actually surprised that the guy in the video wasn't wearing a tinfoil hat.

 

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18 minutes ago, Jimm said:

So riddle me this: Since the Creator's Update has streamlined the privacy settings, are you going to suggest that they did this to allay people's fears about privacy, lulling them into a false sense of security, for the sake of Microsoft being able to track people easier?  I'm actually surprised that the guy in the video wasn't wearing a tinfoil hat.

 

The riddle is solved by the complaints put forth by several consumer groups and industry/privacy watchdog organizations, plus press reports, and also by pressure from the EU. No tinfoil hats nor leprechauns needed.

MS responded to public distrust and pressure for greater transparency, and that pressure tends not to come from people who don't care.

https://betanews.com/2017/01/10/windows-10-privacy-changes/

Whether any sense of security given by these actions is false or not is rightly up to individuals to decide for themselves, hopefully after taking a look at the issue from as many available angles as they have the interest to pursue.

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9 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

The riddle is solved by the complaints put forth by several consumer groups and industry/privacy watchdog organizations, plus press reports, and also by pressure from the EU. No tinfoil hats nor leprechauns needed.

MS responded to public distrust and pressure for greater transparency, and that pressure tends not to come from people who don't care.

https://betanews.com/2017/01/10/windows-10-privacy-changes/

Whether any sense of security given by these actions is false or not is rightly up to individuals to decide for themselves, hopefully after taking a look at the issue from as many available angles as they have the interest to pursue.

Ok, so I'm not saying you are wrong, in your line of thinking, but if you take the time to read all of the fine print that MS has in their ELUA, they pretty much tell you that you either agree to to their terms, which may include the communication of personal data, so you can use Windows, or disagree and install and learn Linux.  My point is, MS has us all by the shorthairs, IF we are to believe everything that we read about the privacy concerns and complaints.  I should also clarify that my standpoint isn't completely about not caring, I do care, but not to the degree that that vast majority is in an uproar over.  I do take precautions, but I also don't run bunch of applications to protect me either.  I'm not ignorant to what is happening in the digital world, I read the trades rather often, so I do still stay in the know.

I should have prefaced my previous posts, with a notation that with this OP, you had to have expected that someone would come along and either disagree completely or at least debate the issue, but anyways...

Maybe you'll reach some folks here with this, and maybe not.  You gave them some food for thought, but I'd like to add that it should all be taken with a grain of salt.

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1 hour ago, Jimm said:

I really could care less if Microsoft or the NSA cares to snoop on my computer.  I have nothing to hide...Unless you have something to hide, you have nothing to worry about and as long as the OS continues to run like a champ, I have no complaints. :cool:

Misses the point entirely.

The NSA is fundamentally evil in its present form and out of control.

And its noone's business what I do on the internet provided no criminal laws are broken.

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2 minutes ago, Boomer said:

Misses the point entirely.

The NSA is fundamentally evil in its present form and out of control.

And its noone's business what I do on the internet provided no criminal laws are broken.

Ok, so you are entitled to your opinion, no need to bash me for it.

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7 minutes ago, Jimm said:

You gave them some food for thought, but I'd like to add that it should all be taken with a grain of salt.

I take him with a grain of salt, but also, based on its history, take Microsoft's respect for privacy with a big ol' grain of salt as well.

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1 hour ago, Jimm said:

Ok, so you are entitled to your opinion, no need to bash me for it.

Me no bashy bashy you.  Pleased to show myself whereby I thusly did.

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Thanks for the heads-up, HiFlyer. Will stay clear as I did with their Anniversary Update.

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May be planning your next O/S will solve the problem windows 10 will be the only Microsoft O/S in the future, and no X box it runs on windows 10, so it looks like apple will rule world eventually

Steve Jobs will get his wishes come true.

Ray Fry.

 

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He was a  MS employee until not long ago he probably knows a lot more than we do.  

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17 minutes ago, Raven9000 said:

Great.. another paranoid thread...

Windows 10..BAD!! But Google Chrome ok :laugh:

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33 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

Windows 10..BAD!! But Google Chrome ok :laugh:

XoQOJJ.jpg

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8 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

XoQOJJ.jpg

Your privacy concerns are overwrought and inconsistent with your browsing behavior. Is that more direct?

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44 minutes ago, Henry Street said:

I believe your privacy concerns are overwrought and inconsistent with your browsing behavior. Is that more direct?

Fixed, for accuracy.

My direct answer is that, your reply is simply an addendum to your original straw man, since I still never said that Google was good, nor that Microsoft was bad, which might indeed be overwrought depending on the weather.

What I did do was post a video (in an operating system forum, hence its limited focus) advocating caution and listing precautions that can be taken that many may find warranted based on past MS practices that have been widely documented, investigated, and even fined on more than one occasion.

Seeing your Interest, I will add that those precautions extend to browsers (like chrome) as well as the operating system, since there are many options and sensible behaviors available in both cases to sensibly limit the amount of data one shares, and yes I do use some of them when convenient. In fact I'm considering a VPN, use programs that demand encrypted connections, block unwanted ads, monitor unauthorized changes to my system and..... I also use antivirus, and even a firewall!!

In all cases, the crux of the matter to me and many others, is control.

One can put a lock on one's door even knowing that a determined trespasser can break it, or one can leave one's doors completely unlocked on the theory that one's house can be broken into in either case (and that being concerned about it is overwrought)

It's a personal preference, but historically, most people, given a choice, opt for locks on their doors and valuable possessions (which to me includes my personal data) and frown on strangers ransacking their belongings, even if there's nothing startling to find. Some are overwrought enough about it to install cameras and elaborate alarm systems to help secure themselves. (and i've been waiting for years for them to be chastised for these extreme measures)

Certainly the European Union sems to be quite overwrought: https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/21/14682256/microsoft-windows-10-eu-privacy-concerns

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