Ariane BBJ (Boeing Business Jet) - Problems/Issues - Small and Large

[Guest bigun]

I purchased the 737-700 V2 when it was released. I have to say that it really is a good add-on. Too expensive? Yes, probably so, but honestly I feel I have received my $$$ worth of use with the aircraft. It does a very good job in pretty much all areas. Keep in mind I have never set foot in the cockpit of a 737 so I don't have a clue if it handles like a RW 737. What I do know is that it's a fun plane to fly.As far as support, yes, it would be great if they had a forum and I think they are doing themselves a disservice by not having one. I will tell you however that I have on several occasions needed support and they always have answered my requests promptly and in a professional manner. Just two days ago I e-mailed them requesting my registration be reset in preperation for reinstalling FS and all my add-ons to a new computer I will be receiving next week. They responded within 24 hours and said that it would not be a problem and to just send in the codes after installing on the new system.I really can't ask for much more than that.

[Orlaam 306]

Why do Ariane apologists assume the "flamers", as they call us, don't own the product? Why would I waste my time complaining about the thing if I didn't have it? I could post a screen shot of the folders and files it created, but why bother? I removed it from my main FS9 installation, but it's still in an older backup I made of the sim.I'm more amazed at the people who say it's a decent add on. http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/freak3.gif

[crvm 0]

>Why do Ariane apologists assume the "flamers", as they call>us, don't own the product? Why would I waste my time>complaining about the thing if I didn't have it? I could post>a screen shot of the folders and files it created, but why>bother? I removed it from my main FS9 installation, but it's>still in an older backup I made of the sim.>>I'm more amazed at the people who say it's a decent add on.>http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/cwm/freak3.gif Well George who posted right above you is someone I know pretty well, is one of the most honest folks around these parts (Hey George!) so even though I would not ever purchase anything Araine related I can appreciate that some folks are happy and have not had some of the difficulties others have had. It's true that a product in part must be judged on it's own merits. Prices, security are really personal assesments and you all know my feelings ;-). Even though I say to anyone if you want to try it take everyone's thoughts on the subject. Certainly there is bias on both sides of the issue yet this alone will not let me say "don't buy it"..................Randy J. Smith................A PROUD MEMBER OF THE PMDG BETA TEAM[h4]Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations[/h4]

[Guest jennifer]

Jwenting wrote:". . . well, no need to start a flamewar. The anti-Ariane mob has been quite successful in doing that all on their own.. . . ".This isn't a flame war. Ricardo, the originator of the thread, seemed to be making some objective comments based on his observations, which can be helpful in assisting those, like me, who were considering buying the product. IOW, a review where the reviewer found the product in many ways wanting.. . nothing wrong with that. He did make some positive comments too, such as how good the external model was for example. Let's allow honest constructive critiscism positive and negative.

[oldbear 33]

I totally agree, Jen.I really can't understand the fuss. World War III always seems to be brewing just below the surface whenever the 'A word' is mentioned.The original post is a fair and objective review of a product the way the poster sees it - nothing more, nothing less. Surely that's the whole point of this forum. I know I would be very grateful for the input should I be considering buying the product.It makes a change someone taking the trouble to post a cogent and rational review rather than just stirring up trouble. And we should respect EVERY shade of opinion if it is delivered in such a manner.Best WishesIan

[Guest Rayed]

Umm sorry for harsh words, but this activation/purchase system is pure idiocy. I'd be very surprised if anyone would buy anything with such protection scheme, especially game addon. This is not protecting anything, this is just pure stupid. Those guys will be out of business faster than they think.Thanks for that review - I was tempted to try this ariane boeing just to see what the fuss is about. You saved me a lot of hassle.

[Guest bigun]

What's up Randy? Hope your doing well. Just to add a couple points to my post above. The activation procedure is indeed frustrating. One thing it appears Ariane has done is ditch the "online" activation all together. That's good because it simply didn't work and just led to frustration. Sending e-mails back and forth takes a day or two but at least it works. One thing I can say without hesitation is this. As most of you who have been here awhile know, I'm a PMDG nut so I'm probably a little "biased" when I say this. Between the PMDG version and the Ariane version of the 737NG there really is no competition. For overall systems modelling and just pure pleasure the PMDG 737 cannot be beat if your looking for an NG. Although I enjoy the Ariane. If I had to decide on one, it would be the PMDG hands down.

[W2DR 1,860]

"And I too wonder how many people who constantly flame them have any experience with them or their products at all (and that includes those who CLAIM to have the product, I've seen enough of those debunked as not having products they claim to have in the past to place much belief in such claims anymore, especially if they're just "Me no happy 2 massa" copycatting flames made by others." Assuming this post is in response to mine, are you calling me a liar regarding my comment about a previous purchase? Or, is this just another of your "usual" posts?Doug

[aentwis 61]

Hi,a lot of people (myself included) look to forums to see what others are saying about a product before purchasing. In the case of Ariane's product line, before I fork out 50 pounds plus (around 80 Euro, I live in Germany), I definitely need to know if the product is going to be worth it. It is generally easy to separate owners from non-owners within these unofficial forum reviews, and there will always be "flamers" (for wont of a better word...). My thanks go out to Ricardo for an unbiased and informative short review. It has definitely made my decision easier, as I was looking into buying a 737 addon. I am now going for the NG by PMDG... The lack of reviews (I found only two, both in German) is worrying. What do they fear? There are some interesting aspects of programming, that is true. The package does not seem well-rounded, and to charge for additional liveries is cheeky.I am not "flaming" Ariane. It seems they have some serious issues with support, no forum, a complicated activation procedure, as well as issues with the aircraft model itself... No patches apparent. All in all, not what a lot of people consider as good value for money...Just my 2 cents' worth...Thanks again Ricardo!Andrew

[Emerson67 248]

Ricardo,Thanks for writing this review. Very informative and useful.-Emerson de Oliveira

[ahinterl 1]

Same experiences here, the Ariane people responded to all my mails in time and in a professional manner.Even after having struggled a bit with the activation, I always got my keys needed after a re-install of XP from Ariane.I have the -900 since day 1 and even bought a livery.Why I don't buy the V2 upgrade? Now, the bird is nice, but I learned to somehow dislike VCs, it's an FPS hog and some things are too buggy and/or missing.Let aside that activation systems like the one Ariane uses in general make me think twice whether to buy or not. Not that I distrust a company that uses such systems, but I for my part prefer being able to install the product to whatever of my computers I like and whenever I want to do so. So, CDs/DVDs are my closer friends...Andreas

[Guest]

his comments were hardly unbiassed, and even his chosen title was clearly designed to be inflamatory.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

"....but I for my part prefer being able to install the product to whatever of my computers I like and whenever I want to do so. So, CDs/DVDs are my closer friends..."That's why many activation systems are becoming so tedious. Most licenses aren't dictated by our personal preference, but by the desire (and it's a valid desire) of the developer to derive income from their product. Hence most products may only be installed on one system. Other products may be installed on multiple systems as long as you are the only user, but in the entertainment software field that is virtually a license to pirate, since many entertainment title users either consciously or unconsciously give others access to their entertainment software.-John

[Guest jboweruk]

Well I'm not going to flame Ariane here, I don't think flaming anyone is appropriate, but I've bought one of their older aircraft at $12 just to try them out ages ago, since then I have bought the PIC737 from Feelthere, and I know this, the FT one was worth much more, and yes I know I paid more but IMHO the Ariane bird I bought was not even as good as the MS default planes. But hey that's just my opinion and it did put me off them.Here's what I found with it:1/ The VC view such that it was looked out at .. the wings, huh? Yep that's right, I could see the wings, no body and my cockpit was right above them.2/ the Panel was a default 737 panel.Okay I didn't expect a lot from the external model for what I paid, but did expect it to be better than a default 737 if I am being expected to shell out.As I stated, I now have the PIC737 as well as the PMDG series and am happy as a bear in a honey pot.

[Ricardo41 5,949]

I had originally planned to do a full review, but haven't the time right now to do the detailed job that this would require (including screenshots, etc.). I have completed about a dozen flights by now and wanted to share some impressions. Furthermore, I've deliberately worded the post title in such a way as to enable anyone to find this information once it drops off the first page. 1. Buying You can buy the Ariane Design Boeing Business Jet from their website. The cost is approximately 50 pounds, which comes out to about $100. For this money you get the following:a) The panel:( The exterior modelc) The dynamic eyepoint systemd) The pushback truck expansion systeme) Navigational data for the flight management computerf) A 500 page manualWhy am I listing this? The explanation is as follows: Ariane prices its products according to "modules". That is to say, Ariane, as stated clearly in the manuals, charges for every part of the plane. Hence the total price of the addon, in this case the BBJ, is the sum total of all the different parts. So you're paying about 12.5 poundsfor each of the major parts: panel, exterior model, eyepoint system, and pushback truck expansion.2. DownloadOnce the purchase has been completed, you will be redirected to a receipt of your purchase, which I highly suggest you print out and save. Here is where the first major problem raises its head: the download links on the purchase receipt don't work, rather, you have to logon to your "receipts" on Ariane's website and download the product from there. You will find the download links on your page, and you will need to download five different files; but here is the important thing to keep in mind: once you START downloading, you cannot refresh the page, navigate away from it, then come back, because ALL your downloads will have been disabled. For example, you cannot download a file on Monday and then resume downloading the rest of the files on Tuesday. Ok, what happens should you have a problem downloading? Here an important distinction needs to be made:a) Download problems BEFORE activation:( Download problems AFTER activationad a) Ariane will "reset" your receipts once for free if you encounter any problems; for example, you download via Mozilla Firefox rather than Internet Explorer. A second download will cost you money!ad :( If i understand Ariane's muddled support pages correctly, it is NOT possible for you to redownload the files AFTER the product(s) have been activated. My advice, therefore, is to be sure to make a backup copy of your files. 3. InstallationAfter completing your download, you should have five files on your computer. Ariane advises that the zipped files should only be opened using WinZip. If you don't have it, you will need to download it from their webpage. (Is this true? Only WinZip? Well, given what you spent in cash for those files, you probably want to play it safe).Using WinZip, unzipping and installing is painless. After the installation is complete, you will not get an Ariane BBJ shortcut on your desktop, but several entries into your start menu will have been added via the installers. 4. Initial StartupAfter starting the sim, you will notice that Ariane has hijacked the graphics in the "rotating" plane window and replaced it with their Boeing logo. Apparently, Ariane will email you a fix for this, but it's still annoying. In order to activate your newly purchased Boeing BJ, you will have to select it from the dropdown plane selection menu. 5. ActivationTwo parts of the BBJ need to be activated: a) Redbox activationB) FMC activationHere is where the next problem emerges. Overall, activation is not THAT complicated, but even though Ariane spends about 50 pages in the handbook explaining this, and, in doing so, treating customers as potential criminals and adlebrained children, it's still not as clear as it could and should be. Here is the process and the problem:1) Ariane allows online and offline activation, but the online activation does not work, no matter how much time you spend working your way through the manual, adjusting every setting on your computer. ONLY OFFLINE ACTIVATION WORKS!2) In order to get offline activation going, you have to do the following steps:a) Enter your order id and credit card id into a box that pops up.:( Have the program generate a code. c) This code needs to be emailed to Ariane. Here is the twist: If you don't use the email program that comes with Internet Explorer, you will have to copy and paste the generated code into the email program you do use. The confusion comes in because the offline activation process generates a key file, but Ariane doesn't really tell you that they will not accept that key file as an attachment. You must copy the code into an email message. d) You will have to generate one code for redbox activation and one for the FMC.e) Ariane will then mail you an activation code, which you will have to copy and paste into the redbox and the FMC. Upon completing this successfully, your FMC and the dynamic eyepoint system will be functional. Again, you must save the activation email. This is the only way to reinstall and reactivate your product. Ariane will NOT mail you an additional one and there is no automatic key generation as there is with Flight 1 products. To summarize, then, up to now you will have made backups of the following:a) The original order receiptB) The product filesc) The activation email6. Initial Impressions and Walk AroundOnce you load the now activated BBJ into the sim you will notice that the plane doesn't have a 2D panel. In fact, it may have no panel at all, unless you ensured that you have an Ariane entry in your scenery.cfg (this is supposed to be done automatically, but it sometimes doesn't work). The Ariane offers a great number of panel views, these can accessed via the "Dymanic eyepoint system". Basically, this is a collection of "preset" views: Virtual cockpit, F/O virtual cockpit, Jumpseat view, galley views, wing views, overhead and aft electronic panel, etc. While the jet doesn't have a 2D panel, Ariane has included what they call a 2di panel - which mimics a 2d panel but is dynamically integrated into the virtual cockpit environment. You will also notice that the Ariane doesn't include a fuel planner or a load manager. In addition to all of this, you can also push the plane back using a pushback truck. You can drive the truck yourself, if you so desire. Overall, I find the external visual models of the two variants (an older and a newer color scheme) to be very good, certainly up to par, perhaps even exceeding the PMDG offering. All the parts are there, and they move. 7. Flight PlanningAt this time, the Boeing Business Jet cannot read any other flightplan other than the default FS9 one. So, in order to have the FMC steer the plane, you have to either input the waypoints yourself or rely on the job that the default FS9 flight planner does. Attempting to import an FS9 flightplane generated two problems on my system. a) You call up the saved flightplan by pressing the "co route" button on the FMC. This is supposed to call up the Explorer window that would then allow you to select and load a flightplan. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't work, the dynamic eypoint system shortcut menu (which you are supposed to call up anytime you want to by pressing Ctrl S) will disappear for good. The entire sim freezes, and you have to alt tab out of FS9 to get the flightplan import to work. If your eyepoint system is gone, the only way to get it back is to start from square one and reload the flight. My suspicion is that there is some conflict here between Active Camera and the eyepoint system. :( The imported waypoints are widely inaccurate. For example, your total route distance might be 700 miles, but the FMC shows 35 000 miles because of all the wrong waypoints that have been inserted. The Ariane FMC does this for about 9 out of every 10 flights. This means that you have to scroll through your route and correct at least two thirds of the entries. In other words, you are better off just entering the waypoints yourself. (Which begs the question: if the import doesn't work, then why include it in the first place?)Ariane cannot correctly FSBuild generated flightplans. I've tried it, and it just produces a complete mess. 8. Fuel PlanningAs stated above, the Ariane plane does not have a fuel planning utility and Ariane advises in their usual obnoxious manner to use the default one. I'm using a freeware 737 fuel planner, which can interface via FSUIPC with the Ariane jet to load fuel, but doing this messes up various fuel gauges on the panel.I can't understand why a $100 addon cannot incorporate a better fuel planning logic. 9. ManualsThe Ariane comes with a total of 500 pages of manuals. Woohoo, you say, finally I'm getting value for money. Well, don't bring out the champagne just yet. I find the manuals to be serviceable but nothing to write home about. Certainly not in the same league as the materials offered, for example, with PMDG's 747.More specifically, the manual consists of the following:a) A 70 page instruction manual on how to download and activate the plane (not needed, could easily be condensed into two pages).B) A detailed manual on the pushback expansion system (not needed, could easily be condensed into 5 pages).c) Two "tutorials", which aren't really all that helpful and don't go beyond what's on offer for other addons. d) A 200 page excerpt from the Boeing manual. Good to have, but does one really need this? I'd rather have a more detailed flight tutorial, performance tables, fuel planning info, etc. 10. Flying the ArianeIf you own and regularly use PMDG's 737 series, have studied the manuals, and have complete Metzinger's tutorials you will have no problem flying the Business Jet. Hence, what I want to do is to list some of the oddities and problems while completing the aforementioned one dozen flights.a)While it's possible to complete an entire flight, from startup to shutdown in the virtual cockpit, you will find it much easier to use the 2Di panel. However, it's not scaled properly, hence the PFD and MFD bitmaps will be "out of synch" with their respective bezels. It looks odd. B) Overall, I find it much easier to navigate through the cockpit using the eyepoint system, rather than panning around the virtual cockpit via the joystickc) Panel and overhead resolution is abysmal. It's difficult to read the numbers on the glareshield, especially from the virtual cockpit view.d)There is no switch on the glareshield that would allow activation of toga, rather, you have to either use a keyboard combination, difficult to do during the take off roll, or pan down to the throttle levers, where the toga switch is located. e) You will notice that there are no flap retraction marks on the pfd speedtape.f) There are no call outs. (Ariane thinks these are "unrealistic")g) I found that upon activating vnav, the nose of the plane will drop sharply, often going into a descent!, to allow acceleration to 250/below 10,000 feet.h) The autothrottle system has difficulty holding the FMC commanded cruise speed. i) If doing an autoland, the autothrottle will not disengage upon touchdown, no matter what you do. Rather, the plane goes into toga mode immediately and, well, takes off again!Now I know what you guys are thinking: Pilot erro! Maybe so, but this brings me to my last point:11. Support System and PatchesAriane does not have a support forum. A promise to open one has been lingering on their webpage for a long time now. It's not happening. I find it hard to believe that Ariane doesn't realize that a majority of problems people have with their addons can be solved simply by reading a support forum. I love to have my pilot errors corrected quickly by more knowledgeable folks, often while I'm flying. In the absence of a forum, you will have to rely on Ariane's email support to get questions answered - and enough has been said about their rude ways of answering emails. Ariane prefer to dodge questions rather than addressing them. Will this plane be patched? I doubt it. I suspect that Ariane will release an update. This update will cost money. I hope this cursory information has been helpful as an aid in deciding whether to buy this addon or not. ricardo