Stingray

Sudden power loss during climb and electrical problem

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Dear Gents,

first I have to apologize for my bad english. Anyway I have one serious problem with the DC 6 and another minor problem.

1. When performing a flight without the AFE during climb phase I get a sudden engine loss down to MAP 20 on all 4 engines. Conditions are clear skies and all procedures in my opinion well done before. No chance to get out of the trouble, aircraft stalls and crashes. With flight with AFE no problems. With manually throttle movement from METO Power the engine bmp runs up an down and the MAP ist very slippery.

2. An engine idle run with 1000 RPM is in my case not possible cause the GEN s go off the Bus and there is no electrical power left. In my case I need 1.500 RPM idle power that the GEN s remain on the bus.

Any tipps or tricks consurning my problems.

Thanks a lot

Peter

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1 hour ago, Stingray said:

Dear Gents,

first I have to apologize for my bad english. Anyway I have one serious problem with the DC 6 and another minor problem.

1. When performing a flight without the AFE during climb phase I get a sudden engine loss down to MAP 20 on all 4 engines. Conditions are clear skies and all procedures in my opinion well done before. No chance to get out of the trouble, aircraft stalls and crashes. With flight with AFE no problems. With manually throttle movement from METO Power the engine bmp runs up an down and the MAP ist very slippery.

Sounds like you're breaking something by not operating correctly. Make sure you've flown the tutorials. 

1 hour ago, Stingray said:

2. An engine idle run with 1000 RPM is in my case not possible cause the GEN s go off the Bus and there is no electrical power left. In my case I need 1.500 RPM idle power that the GEN s remain on the bus.

You've turned the battery off. 

1 hour ago, Stingray said:

Any tipps or tricks consurning my problems.

Thanks a lot

Peter

 

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I have turned the battery off! okay, have to check this, thx!

I have read the tutorials and they are for flying with the AFE. I tend to fly without him just like I do in most of the A2A aircraft ( connie, B377 ). All my mixture settings, cowl flaps, RPM and MAP settings are acording to the books. Also no clouds or moisture to avoid carb icing or things like that. It is very strange but I will try again. the only thing I think about is maybe a to steep angle of attack or climb rate. Is that possible that the engines may stall cause they are out of the air flow.

Thanks for answering!

Peter

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Happens to me too. I dont know why. Every gauge is within the green band. Im wondering if im doing something wrong by running a lean mixture at high altitude? Right now im at 20,000ft, Every gauge in green and away from the yellow/red limits.

The BMEP gauges are showing 110
Manifold pressure is like 31
cyl head temp 90
 rpm 2500
Speed 180
Oil press 90
All temperature gauges within green bands.

With these values and a rich auto mixture is working fine. I will turn the mixture to lean and will see what happens

 

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Well guys i did a test putting engine 1 and 4 in a lean mixture and leaving 2 and 3 in a rich mixture. Both 1 and 4 failed within 5 minutes, while 2 and 3 are still fine. So it looks like using a lean mixture at altitude kills the engines. Why is that?

I noticed that the cyl. head temperature went up (But still within the green band) and the oil pressure dropped to just one notch above the lower red band but it looks like within acceptable limits. Why is the lean mixture causing them to fail?

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So, Battery switch was on plane state. The elec problem is somewhere else. Just tried to start the engines, no engine start is possible. Each engine fires up and rpm rises only slightly below 1000 and than bang thats it.

In my opinion there is a huge problem with this addon. Very dissapointed about PMDG, sorry. Fast return to my A2A aircraft. From the beginning on I had my doubts, cause everything is turning around this AFE and thats it. Only standard FSX programing and this is the result. Missing aircraft state remember or dimmable lights, okay, but this engine and battery issues, that is a shame sorry.

 

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16 minutes ago, Stingray said:

 

So, Battery switch was on plane state. The elec problem is somewhere else. Just tried to start the engines, no engine start is possible. Each engine fires up and rpm rises only slightly below 1000 and than bang thats it.

In my opinion there is a huge problem with this addon. Very dissapointed about PMDG, sorry. Fast return to my A2A aircraft. From the beginning on I had my doubts, cause everything is turning around this AFE and thats it. Only standard FSX programing and this is the result. Missing aircraft state remember or dimmable lights, okay, but this engine and battery issues, that is a shame sorry.

 

You must be doing something wrong. I got this addon yesterday and here im, cruising at FL200 without touching AFE and with all the realism settings turned on.

 

Giving up is not the answer. Testing and reading is.

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33 minutes ago, Stingray said:

 

So, Battery switch was on plane state. The elec problem is somewhere else. Just tried to start the engines, no engine start is possible. Each engine fires up and rpm rises only slightly below 1000 and than bang thats it.

In my opinion there is a huge problem with this addon. Very dissapointed about PMDG, sorry. Fast return to my A2A aircraft. From the beginning on I had my doubts, cause everything is turning around this AFE and thats it. Only standard FSX programing and this is the result. Missing aircraft state remember or dimmable lights, okay, but this engine and battery issues, that is a shame sorry.

 

Well, even though I also like the other products more, alone for the immersion factor, but the issues you describe are not present on my '6'.. flown three longer (3-4 hours) legs now without any problems at all.

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You are right, giving up is not an option, but I am sure that there is someting wrong. Did my first flights with AFE and everything went okay. I dont like this AFE, specially cause of the throttle inop during AFE use. These sudden power losses and the GEN dissconect at low ground idling is in my opinion a bug. Look at the checklist in the POH, even the AFE prepares the aircraft for example for engine start not according the list  ( magneto switches, mixture lever )

Try a flight beginning in sunset in FSX, no red internal lightning, just kicks in when FSX dawn phase goes to night mode. These are things we had 5 years ago but not allowable by PMDG addons for 70 bucks. A max of 30-40 dollars is it worth, not a penny more.

what is about your engine problems Xender? you solved it out?

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Real names on the forum please.

saying there is a bug while with AFE you do not have an issue clearly indicates that you are doing something wrong and you are missing a step somewhere. I have flow in numerous times without the AFE during the beta and never had any issues.

 

try the following, use the AFE up to the departure and then just abort him and fly your self, still have the issues ? 

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I start this way:

Boost pump low- starter on- 6 blades, mags and primer on, 12 blades, boost on.

The engine will fire up anytime- however, if I leave the throttle at the idle setting the AFE gave me, it will starve immediately. But when I apply a bit more, it will fire up as intended. Then quickly mixture to auto-rich.

Took me some time to fiddle it out, and it seems not logical to do it, but I guess some of the behind-the-scenes physics we're used from the other dev is just missing or isn't as complex.

What I found is that primer, starter and boost will go off by their own after some time, which is rather strange, but the gens work for me.

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Hi Chris,

I did that already. It is possible that I am doing something wrong, no doubt about that but I really cannot believe it yet. But I will try it again. But as I said I dont like the AFE cause even the AFE makes some actions I cannot belive ( for example, AFE sets Auto mixture lean during climb out ) Auto lean setting is only for cruise!

Okay, stop yelling now, promised! but a little dissapointed here. what about the battery issue? this is a thing where you can do only one fault, Batterie on or off. Mine is on and generatos off the bus below 1200 RPM with the consequence of loosing any elec power! over 1200 GEN kicking on again but for example GPS Reality XP has to be programmed new!

Thanks for trying to help! have fun with the DC 6, I go back to the A2A Connie

greetings

Peter

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To me it looks like the AFE doesn't manage fuel properly. When I switched from the main tanks to the alternate tanks manually, performance of engines #1 and #4 was restored.

Oliver Märtens (Maertens)

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Hi Matthias,

glad that everything is working for you. But as you mentioned, it is not so clear the hole thing or let me say, there are huge differences between AFE settings and the POH. But okay, have fun with her.

 

Peter

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The AFE doesn't manage the fuel at all from what I saw.

On the last flight I did I ran the main tanks dry during cruise, but had enough in the alternates. What does the FE on approach? Switches to the emtpy mains.. great stuff.

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forget about that AFE! only useful AFE stage maybe the take off phase but thats it. Captain of the ship by A2A is a lot better. To be on descent with a fixed 26 MAP setting specially with a very light plane is no fun really! even in level flight no speeds below 200 knots. I know this is a radial piston engine problem at this time also with the A2A connie but there you have definetely more options to handle the throttles.

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I am having a hard time following this thread...seems to be at least three different problems in the mix. Not sure if OP is still here?

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17 minutes ago, MatzeH84 said:

The AFE doesn't manage the fuel at all from what I saw.

On the last flight I did I ran the main tanks dry during cruise, but had enough in the alternates. What does the FE on approach? Switches to the emtpy mains.. great stuff.

You're correct on both counts: No mentioning anywhere that the AFE manages fuel in the cruise, but he just switched to my dry main tanks during the approach!   :blink:

Looks like that guy could stand a lil' bit tweaking from PMDG ...   ;-)

Oliver Märtens (Maertens)

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You are right, mixing to much in this thread.

1. Sudden engine power loss during climb out without using the AFE

2. Elec loss during low RPM on the Ground.

these are the main issues. All other maybe in a new thread. But I dont think so, cause I am the only one with these problems.

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4 minutes ago, Stingray said:

Sudden engine power loss during climb out without using the AFE

Probably because you're damaging the engines in how you're operating them.

4 minutes ago, Stingray said:

Elec loss during low RPM on the Ground.

The gens have a low range. Just about every prop plane out there has one.

Pretty irresponsible to immediately write things off as bugs and pointedly accuse us of wrongdoing before you run through a few cursory checks. It's one thing to wonder and ask. It's quite another to cast aspersions without vetting. Please avoid this.

Full names in the forum - first and last.

  • Upvote 2

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God day Mr. Rodgers,

even a publisher like PMDG has to fight with a little critism. I own all PMDG airplanes and I am happy with all of them. The DC-6 is in my opinion not the knwon standard. But okay, I did not say that this must be a bug or two, but this engine behaviour in my case without using the AFE is strange. I watched several times what the AFE does and what might be my fault. Could not find any differences but without AFE I have these sudden power losses.

Elec. Problem with the GEN, could not see what I can do wrong there. Batterie switch plane, ground power off and engine GEN on. Thats it. Below prox. 1400 RPM the red GEN lights come on and all elec is lost till kicking in again with applying throttle.

Lastly the AFE actions and the POH recomendations are not the same and differ from each other, specially concurning engine start. It must be okay to talk about these problems sorry

Sincerely

Peter Schlotfeldt

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And sure it is, but the problem is that you're pointing fingers and accusing. Do you want to find faults or do you want to get to the bottom of what's happening and start enjoying the product you paid?

If i had an issue that no one else has, i will be questioning myself, not the product. There's something you're doing wrong somewhere. That's what was happening to me: I was using a lean mixture at high altitude and that damaged my engines. That was a  "Sudden power loss" for me until i figured it out doing test flights and reading the manual.

Read the section named "recommended operating procedures" there you will find a step by step to operate the aircraft yourself without AFE, Read that. And limit your climbs to 10,000 or so for now. test that.

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Eh.. sorry, but using lean mixture during cruise is exactly what you should do, that's what it's there for. Otherwise your fuel burn will be beyond evil. Contrary to smaller engines with manual leaning, the auto-rich and auto-lean positions will keep the engine within safe limits, as long as you observe the power limitations for lean mixture.

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Can you point me to where i can find those power limitations with lean mixture? If im at 20,000 and switch to using a lean mixture my engines wont last 5 minutes before being damaged :blink:

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Had to search for myself, because I could swear I would have read some hard numbers on this.. however the only thing I found was to avoid rapid engine acceleration.

I used auto-lean on all flights I did so far with no problems, up to 22k feet. Be sure automixture within the sim is disabled? What kind of damage are you receiving? Keep in mind if you lean the mixture, the combustion will be hotter, thus resulting in higher CHT, which must be accounted for with the cowl flaps.

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