I too got cut off by FSD when asking questions about a new purchase, then they somehow cut off my Navajo (favorite plane up till then), so question: How does one contact them politely, if one is ousted from their site?? Sure would like to get the Navajo back in operation!! Thanks for the reply RRL (KTUS)

Mr. Dahlen,Thanks for providing AVSIM's persepective. I'm one of those new subscribers you mentioned and I'm an extremely disgruntled FSD 'X' buyer. I've had the same experience as others in that I purchased an O2 from them and it DID NOT INSTALL. No matter what I tried and I'm fairly savvy with regards to registry and file maintenance. Their immediate reply wasn't that I was a pirate, but that I obviously did something wrong as their installer just couldn't possibly fail. Quote, "Thousands of previous buyers proves it works. . " end quote.After several emails their response was that I should reinstall Windows XP. I certainly will not considering it's running flawlessly for 3 years and I have oodles of gigs of files and programming installed which I don't care to do all over again just to use their product. They would not budge on a 'NO' to my request for a refund again stating that their installer was infallible. this is the second time I've had no success in dealing with them.Therefore, I for one, will never do business with FSD again. The hobby has gotten expensive and extrememly competitive and there are sooo many good designers out there who do support their work and I'll gladly support them. Special kudos to those designers spending countless hours and delivering 'free' products as good as many of the commercial teams.Regards,Rick, TCA2519

>I've been reading all of these FSD threads as they come along.> They certainly do become a bickering war between predictable>members, but they've also provided a valuable service to me as>a member of AVSIM.>>Had I not seen these threads I would have no idea that there>was any difference of opinion (or fact) regarding FSD's>customer service and software. When these threads pop up, I>can read all the remarks and decide for myself whether to give>FSD business or not.>>I appreciate all of the fine work you and the other mods do to>keep this forum as an enjoyable place to visit and learn;>however, deleting these FSD threads may actually be a>disservice to your newer members who are not aware of this>potential issue.>>May I suggest to let the folks argue in a civilized manner,>delete the innappropriate posts, but keep the thread visible>so others like me who do not have a dog in the hunt can read>and make a buying decision for ourselves.>However, there is another side to this problem. In the "payware" world, it isn't unusual to sell thousands of downloads of this software. Five, ten, fifteen, or twenty negative postings can easily make a "new reader" assume a lot of negativity, while many other thousands are completely satisified. Everytime a thread like this pops up, those with negative experience will always comment, which is their right, while the other thousands having a positive experience usually won't.So.............at what point, do you just leave these threads intact, considering the "message" isn't as usually balanced as it should be?And that's the problem! A long time reader is very aware of these situations, while a NEW reader, can easily come to the wrong conclusion.I don't have all the answers either, but when I see postings involving lawyers, litigation, etc, I also think it's way out of hand, and "bla,bla,bla" too!L.Adamson

problem is that people who have no trouble (and are far in the majority) are called names and frauds by the few who do have problems and are usually completely shouted down by a very small but extremely vocal minority, leading newcomers to the incorrect assumption that FSD (or Ariane, or PSS, or maybe some others) are fraudulent organisations with extremely poor products.Such threads are liable to be considered libel if it ever cam to legal action, which would hurt this site tremendously.As it seems to always be the same people complaining about various companies out there the thought beckons whether these people may have a hidden agenda and might even be making up their stories in order to further that agenda.Not all of them, but a very vocal few.If Tom and the other moderators would only remove the flames they'd have to remove pretty much every post by the complainers, leading to further complaints that they're biassed and "in league" with the companies in question (it's happened).

>Everytime a thread like this pops up, those with negative>experience will always comment, which is their right, while>the other thousands having a positive experience usually>won't.>>So.............at what point, do you just leave these threads>intact, considering the "message" isn't as usually balanced as>it should be?>>And that's the problem! A long time reader is very aware of>these situations, while a NEW reader, can easily come to the>wrong conclusion.I fundamentally disagree...it's quite a fallacy to assume that only people with negative experiences will "always comment" in these threads...in fact I find the opposite to be true, in that the fan club seems to "always" chime in repeating the same praises over and over whenever any legitimate complaint is aired.I believe there are many unhappy customers out there who suffer in silence...and if there's a balance problem it's generally the a really excited user shifting it towards the rosy side.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

"FSD ... are fraudulent organisations with extremely poor products."I haven't read anyone saying that. What I have read are posts from those who are unhappy with FSD's response to their problems. (In any event, there is no libel if the facts are true.)The quality of customer service is determined not by the way an organisation deals with simple problems but how it deals with difficult ones.I believe too these threads do offer a valuable service. Having read them, we are capable of making our judgements as to what we think the truth is and act accordingly.

>I fundamentally disagree...it's quite a fallacy to assume that>only people with negative experiences will "always comment" in>these threads...in fact I find the opposite to be true, in>that the fan club seems to "always" chime in repeating the>same praises over and over whenever any legitimate complaint>is aired.>Then why do "thousands" still purchase these products year after year after year?Probably going on 10 years now...L.Adamson

>I fundamentally disagree...it's quite a fallacy to assume that>only people with negative experiences will "always comment" in>these threads...in fact I find the opposite to be true, in>that the fan club seems to "always" chime in repeating the>same praises over and over whenever any legitimate complaint>is aired.Bob,I tend to chime in and support FSD because I see the same handful of people dragging FSD's name through the mud over and over again. There certainly are also new faces with complaints, but there is a vocal core group that seems to always be in the middle of most FSD flame threads repeatedly. When I see that I will always speak up.Regards,Douglas

If your product has registered succesfully, then falls over, try booting in safe mode and running the installer. Far from a perfect solution but it does allow you to use the package you have paid for.This obviously only works if the registration was successful.Ian P.

I have to give the reader credit for reasonable intelligence. I believe most readers will read these threads with a skeptical eye and with an understanding that naturally many satisfied customers will not respond.In the FSD threads I've read, I haven't heard any of the complaintants themselves attack those who support FSD. For the most part, all I've read is their own bad personal experiences. Unfortunately, some who support FSD do not simply tell of their experiences and leave it at that. They tend to assume that these numberous complaintants are rude, stupid, or somehow lacking in necessary social skills, and then they post these opinions (I assume most or all of these people don't actually know each other). We all know the difference between experience and opinion. I tend to put much stock in the former and not in the latter.Then of course we will have others that do not like FSD for various reasons chime in with namecalling, etc. All I am saying is to let members share their experiences (not their opinions) and give the average reader credit for having the capacity to come to a sensible judgement based on those posts. Keep the experiences (pro & con) posted in the thread and delete the opinions or attacks on the posters. I tend to discount the opinions and attacks anyway when reading a thread such as this; however, experience is something I want to hear about.Regards,Paul Dahlen

>However, there is another side to this problem. In the>"payware" world, it isn't unusual to sell thousands of>downloads of this software. Five, ten, fifteen, or twenty>negative postings can easily make a "new reader" assume a lot>of negativity, while many other thousands are completely>satisified. I wonder how this statement harmonizes with jwenting

By the way...looking at the PMDG-website you can find that 20961 user have downloaded the Lufthansa-livery for their 737-700. If you add another, let

"By the way, I am a happy "non-customer" of FSD (and will certainly keep it that way), but their "customer-support" raises one

>"most of them don't make>money out of it btw, they are happy if they get the cost of>doing it back..." is a LITTLE exaggerated... ;-)Several developers do make a living from payware. Just like Microsoft designers and others. Telented people should make a living from what they do best, just like anyone else.However, you'll never get 30,000 customers for the 737. You'll be lucky to get half of the 10,000 customers. L.Adamson

I think your numbers are quite a bit exaggerated. I am not a software company so I can't quote accurate numbers, and neither can you. The only thing I know is that what a few developers have told me before about their sales volumes does not come anywhere near the numbers you are talking about. Plus when you consider an outfit like PMDG has to split these proceeds among a lot of programmers, modelers and graphics artists. After you divide it all up I doubt if it is something you can get any financial security from.