Jihong Min

How to configure NADP 2 in PMDG 777

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I edited EO ACCEL HT/ACCEL HT/THR REDUCTION to 800/3000/800 in INIT REF->TAKEOFF REF 2/2 page.

But it seems that makes the airplane follows NADP 1 rule.

What should I do to make the airplane follow NADP 2 rule?

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NADP 2 is actually Flap up speed (Vz) + 10-20kts until 3000ft AAL.

by the book, at above 800ft AAL you can begin to accelerate, and climb thrust is to be set after 1st Flap retraction. And you are only allowed to accelerate beyond Flap up speed + 10-20kts once you climb above 3000ft AAL

For your info,  my airline modify it slightly and the default is EO 1000AAL / ALL ENG 1000ft AAL and CLB THR is Flap 1 (if you use F15/20 for Take off change it to Flap 5)

this way you will be compliant with NDAP2.

EO ACCEL is not part of the NADP, we change (normally increase it to above 1000AAL) it to make sure that in the event of EO during take off we will be able to clear the terrain on the departure route. 

 

 

 

For NADP 1, simply change ALL ENG ACCEL to 3000ft And CLB THR to 1500ft 

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On this topic i have few questions

Who decides NADP 1 or 2 for takeoff. Is it pilot or airport ATC or dispatch or airline policy? On what basis they decide? I think NADP1 is for noise reduction close to airport and 2 is noise reduction away from airport but how it is decided that for e.g. EGLL which profle to use? Is profile constant for airline or for airport?

 

Thanks

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25 minutes ago, ashun said:

On this topic i have few questions

Who decides NADP 1 or 2 for takeoff. Is it pilot or airport ATC or dispatch or airline policy? On what basis they decide? I think NADP1 is for noise reduction close to airport and 2 is noise reduction away from airport but how it is decided that for e.g. EGLL which profle to use? Is profile constant for airline or for airport?

 

Thanks

99% Airport policy which is based on the surrounding residential area. 

Sometimes it is a hybrid of NADP 1 and 2, for example Heathrow adopts an all engine acceleration height of 1500ft AAL.

For airports which are surrounded by sea like KIX NGO HKG etc will adopt NADP 1 as noise is not too much of an issues. 

However when noise become an issue, NADP2 will usually apply, i.e RJAA / RPLL / LSZH etc 

 

the relevant reqiurement will be published in Jeppsesen airport section. 

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For example LGAV 10-1P5 for Noise abatement procedures has the following

Thrust reduction-acceleration RNWs 03L and 03R unless for safety reasons all Turbo prop and jet powered ACFT shall not reduce take-off thrust until a minimum altitude of 1800' MSL have been reached and shall not accelerate above initial climb speed V2+10 or change takeoff flap and slat configuration until minimum altitude of 3000' MSL have been reached.

 

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1 hour ago, Driverab330 said:

Sometimes it is a hybrid of NADP 1 and 2, for example Heathrow adopts an all engine acceleration height of 1500ft AAL.

Not strictly true -- all LHR requires is (basically) that you don't set off a noise monitoring terminal, but there is (as far as I can find) no specified acceleration height.

BA use 1000ft accel/1000ft thrust reduction as standard ex-LHR (and indeed anywhere else that a specific procedure isn't required) - the exception being the 744 where a slightly modified profile is used to 4000ft.

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1 hour ago, skelsey said:

Not strictly true -- all LHR requires is (basically) that you don't set off a noise monitoring terminal, but there is (as far as I can find) no specified acceleration height.

BA use 1000ft accel/1000ft thrust reduction as standard ex-LHR (and indeed anywhere else that a specific procedure isn't required) - the exception being the 744 where a slightly modified profile is used to 4000ft.

Thanks for your input, my airline modifies the acceleration height of 77W /744  to 1500AAL and THR reduction at 1000ft AAL. That's why I called it the "hybrid" and 99% airport specific and left out the 1% for other for example modification by airlines. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, skelsey said:

the exception being the 744 where a slightly modified profile is used to 4000ft.

This caught my eye because I just flew the UAL EGLL-KSFO trip departing on the CPT DP and I judged I would need to wait until 4000 to accelerate to clear the constraint at WOD.  What is the profile that you were referring to?  Thanks mate.

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I was under the impression BA uses the following for noise amendment 

 

Carry out standard takeoff procedure up until 1,000 ft AAL.

At 1,000 ft AAL reduce power to full CLB power.

Speed intervene at flaps 10 minimum manoeuvring speed.

Accelerate to flaps 10 minimum manoeuvring speed, retracting flaps to 10 on schedule.

Climb at flaps 10 minimum manoeuvring speed to the terminating altitude listed in CARD. If an altitude below this is promulgated or assigned by ATC, continue the acceleration and clean up at this altitude.

Terminate speed intervention and accelerate on schedule to en-route climb speed.

Once clean, reduce climb power to CLB 1. 

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33 minutes ago, downscc said:

This caught my eye because I just flew the UAL EGLL-KSFO trip departing on the CPT DP and I judged I would need to wait until 4000 to accelerate to clear the constraint at WOD.  What is the profile that you were referring to?  Thanks mate.

 

UAL does NADP1 at EGLL, Thrust Red. 1500', Accel. 3000'. In the -400. I know UAL crews modify this to 1500/4000 to meet the 4000A restriction if deemed necessary. NADP1 for UAL on the -400 is accel. 800' and thrust reduction at Flaps 5.

 

BAW SOP on the -400 out of EGLL is as follows. Set FMC to Thrust reduction at 1000' and accel. 1000''. Upon acceleration, set MCP SPD intervention to Flap 10 MMS (minimum maneuvering speed). Set Flaps 10. upon reaching 4000', resume acceleration/clean-up. Takeoff is always Flaps 20. CLB until clean, and then CLB-1. 

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1 hour ago, downscc said:

This caught my eye because I just flew the UAL EGLL-KSFO trip departing on the CPT DP and I judged I would need to wait until 4000 to accelerate to clear the constraint at WOD.  What is the profile that you were referring to?  Thanks mate.

Nothing more to add to the above! Leo and @Olympic260 (sorry, can't see signatures on my phone to spot your real name) have nailed it (Leo is spot on with regard to full CLB until clean).

BA use this procedure (or a variation on it) at a couple of other airfields worldwide, but sometimes with different terminating altitudes (I seem to remember SFO being on the list but I can't remember for certain). At other airfields if there is no other noise abatement procedure specified then the standard is accel 1000 and CLB thrust with flap 5.

NB: the above is only applicable to the 747-400. The other fleets are (marginally) more conventional! 

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