Thanks Frank. The clamping method still has drawbacks but perhaps not as many as the proposed system. The downside of the clamping system is the redesign of the yoke and throttle quadrant and the 5ype of desk has to be compatible.

But I’m guessing they thought of that and decided the plastic self-sticking sheet was preferable. But only perhaps if it is rarely moved. Desks sometimes have more than one use as you have stated.

If a video can be prepared it will certainly help us understand the system better.

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The downside of the clamping system is the redesign of the yoke and throttle quadrant and the 5ype of desk has to be compatible.

Yes, I see this  - as long as the system would not turn out to be a total disaster the manufacturer would not start a redesign, especially this late in the process.

For those with incompatible desks, or people who do not trust the suction cup method - we could still fix the yoke on a thin base plate that we clamp to our desk with custom C-clamps, not beautiful, but maybe worth it, if the yoke / quadrant combi is turning out to keep its' promises.

Cheers
Frank

6 hours ago, mdata said:

For those with incompatible desks, or people who do not trust the suction cup method - we could still fix the yoke on a thin base plate that we clamp to our desk with custom C-clamps

But why should we need to do that with new equipment? To be successful it needs to work out of the box with pretty much any desk/surface.

4 hours ago, vortex681 said:

But why should we need to do that with new equipment? To be successful it needs to work out of the box with pretty much any desk/surface.

Because I think that the design with suction cups will not work on every surface; or to phrase it differently: will not work perfectly on every surface.

So, as long as we are not able to convince the manufacturer to change his design we would either need to live with potential shortcomings or to work around them. I only made a suggestion, sort of thinking loud. Nobody is forced to do what I though would be a possibility to do if the suction cups do not stick to his/her desk, or if somebody becomes tired of pealing the yoke from his desk, or if after too soon of a time the suction cups do not stick well anymore and one wants to stop pealing them off before they need complete replacement ... just thought experiments...

Best Regards
Frank

Who would have thought that we can have high friction pads which stop stuff from falling off car dashboards? Yet we have them these days? I don't know how long the Thrustmaster HOTAS X stick has been around but did anyone bemoan the fact that one is expected to put the stick on a flat desk? I don't have enough desk space so it sits on my knee (not enough spring force to deflect the base by much so it works just fine). 

Down the line,  the flight sim community will come up with ingenious ways to affix the yoke and throttles, should it be necessary. A manufacturer can't really be expected to cater for all furniture eventualities IMHO.

5 hours ago, HighBypass said:

Who would have thought that we can have high friction pads which stop stuff from falling off car dashboards?

The difference is that no one is deliberately applying significant twisting, backwards and forwards forces to items on your dashboard as you would with a yoke and throttle. When I first got my PC steering wheel, because the clamp was fiddly to apply I tried to just use a non-slip workshop mat to hold it steady and it was a disaster - a clamp was essential. With a joystick you tend to press down on it as you use it and this anchors it to your desk. It shouldn't be up to the end user to devise a way of securing controls to a desk, it's the manufacturer's responsibility to provide something which is adaptable enough to work effectively in the majority of cases. Like many people, I don't leave my controls permanently attached to my desk as they take up to much space so anything I buy has to be quick and easy to fit and remove completely (and sometimes a number of times a day). I don't have exact details of how the Honeycomb mounts work but it would seem a shame to spoil an otherwise good design with a weak mount.

On 07/11/2017 at 7:05 AM, mdata said:

Because I think that the design with suction cups will not work on every surface; or to phrase it differently: will not work perfectly on every surface.

So, as long as we are not able to convince the manufacturer to change his design we would either need to live with potential shortcomings or to work around them. I only made a suggestion, sort of thinking loud. Nobody is forced to do what I though would be a possibility to do if the suction cups do not stick to his/her desk, or if somebody becomes tired of pealing the yoke from his desk, or if after too soon of a time the suction cups do not stick well anymore and one wants to stop pealing them off before they need complete replacement ... just thought experiments...

Best Regards
Frank

Until we can either see a demo or try it ourselves the jury has to be out on this system. I would imagine that given the amount of planning and thought that has gone into this yoke and throttle quadrant Honeycomb are pretty confident it will work for the vast majority of surfaces.

I would like to think they have also taken into account that the sheet may need to be removed from the desk on a fairly regular basis. Maybe include a spare in the package and also allow customers to buy packs if required.

28 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Until we can either see a demo or try it ourselves the jury has to be out on this system. I would imagine that given the amount of planning and thought that has gone into this yoke and throttle quadrant Honeycomb are pretty confident it will work for the vast majority of surfaces.

I would like to think they have also taken into account that the sheet may need to be removed from the desk on a fairly regular basis. Maybe include a spare in the package and also allow customers to buy packs if required.

I totally agree.

Only the question of the "Demo" makes me worry a bit. Since Aerosoft has become exclusive partner for Honeycomb in Europe I think we will not see the yoke or the quadrant show up in any store soon or maybe for ever. So the trying before buying will not be possible and we will always rely on the feedback of others. This is fine for software - but for hardware, where it is all about the feel, ... difficult.
But fortunately there is guys like you or others who go out to visit exhibitions and try the hardware for us. Thanks a lot for this!

Cheers
Frank

4 hours ago, mdata said:

I totally agree.

Only the question of the "Demo" makes me worry a bit. Since Aerosoft has become exclusive partner for Honeycomb in Europe I think we will not see the yoke or the quadrant show up in any store soon or maybe for ever. So the trying before buying will not be possible and we will always rely on the feedback of others. This is fine for software - but for hardware, where it is all about the feel, ... difficult.
But fortunately there is guys like you or others who go out to visit exhibitions and try the hardware for us. Thanks a lot for this!

Cheers
Frank

I was going to Lelystad anyway but it’s a shame Honeycomb weren’t able to have a production model available including the fixing process so potential customers could see how it works. But time ran out for them which is perfectly understandable.

Regarding the question of stockists I agree that having to buy ‘blind’ is not ideal. Buying online does give you good protection and the option to return if necessary. But I imagine most people would want to keep it.

From my limited trial I’m happy with the feel and the tension in both axes. If Honeycomb do go with the option of different strength bungee connectors that should mean users can customise how they want it to feel.

The other point I didn’t mention is there is a plan to mount a G1000 unit on a mounting plate on the yoke. That will come later of course but it shows real commitment to making this more of a system than just a yoke/throttle combo.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

The other point I didn’t mention is there is a plan to mount a G1000 unit on a mounting plate on the yoke. That will come later of course but it shows real commitment to making this more of a system than just a yoke/throttle combo.

Hm, this sounds interesting too. I hope they have the staying power to make their projects real. If they manage to to deliver a fair quality for the envisaged price they will sell a good amount of these combos. With all the switches they plan to include on both instruments I would not be able to resist and attempt to get* both, the yoke and the quadrant.

*(If ever my wife, aka budget keeper will let me ... we'll see ...)

Cheers
Frank

On 11/5/2017 at 1:25 PM, HighBypass said:

Well, the products certainly look great IMHO, not to mention the added functionality of all the programmable switches. If one were to use the yoke and throttle for FSX for example, would you be able to assign the buttons via the sims' own menu?

Also, regarding the switches, might you provide stickers for some of the more usual functions for the user to apply?

Both products are recognized as HID devices, which means that they can be programmed through Windows, our software, the sims UI (if it has the function) and FSUIPC  which should answer Ray's questions as well. :-)

As for the stickers, then I think it's a great idea! If the community could help me create a list of desired labels, then I'll make sure that's included. I have created a post on our Facebook page where suggestions can be added: www.facebook.com/FlyHoneycomb/

 

On 11/5/2017 at 2:08 PM, mikea76 said:

Hi, I have been following your progress on this yoke for awhile now, I plan on purchasing it to replace my old saitek yoke. I hope th production model will have the 6 inch travel for the elevator, a major issue I have with the saitek I have now is that the short elevator travel makes control difficult at times. 

When I measured the travel in the prototype it was just short of 6 inches total, but close enough that I'm comfortable rounding up.

On 11/5/2017 at 5:41 PM, vortex681 said:

Nicki, I'm very impressed with the design of both your yoke and throttle. The only thing that concerns me is the method of mounting it to the desk. I have a desk with a very definite wood-grain effect on the surface and even the most efficient suction cups only stick for a very short time. With something which will be regularly moved against resistance I can't see a controller without a clamp of some description being universally effective. I remove my current controllers when not simming and wouldn't want to have some sort of sticky mount permanently attached to my desk, no matter how thin. Will there be no clamp option?

There will not be a clamp option, but let me ensure you that:
- It will work on wood grain desktop, and as good or better as a clamp - it is not suction cups as you traditional envision it. It's just the easiest way to explain it.
- It will as quick or quicker to remove than a clamp
- IT will never wear out or leave residue or marks.

I have personally been given a thorough demonstration by the product designer, before approving the mounting system (I was doubtful myself) and works great! Trust me, I wouldn't have gone along with it, if he hadn't convinced me!

On 11/5/2017 at 8:55 PM, kevinfirth said:

Very interested in these.  I'm all for innovation, but slightly concerned re the mounting method as well.  I also; remove my current controllers when not simming and wouldn't want to have some sort of sticky mount permanently attached to my desk, no matter how thin.

Could you post a video of this new method in use so we can see how it looks and performs please?  I fear I'd be needing to manufacture my own clampable surface plate onto which to stick your new sticky pad, which would kind of defeat the purpose!

We'll make a video demonstration the the mounting system as we get closer to launch!

On 11/6/2017 at 5:35 AM, mdata said:

Hi Ray,

thank you very much for reporting back as promised. It's great to get updates from someone who could personally lay hands on the yoke.

Similar to you and others I have concerns regarding the fixing method. My desk is an all purpose desk; like the others commenting above I would remove the yoke on a daily basis - how many removals over its' lifetime would the material allow? Hardware like this should last 5 to 10 years. Let's say on average I do sim every other day or a bit more, let's call it 200 removals per year - so we look at up to 2000 removals. Then count dust to come into play, and different desk surfaces ... I am sure the guys at Honeycomb are trying to account for this, but will it be sufficient? Can it really replace a classic clamping mechanism? It would be a pity if the yoke would fail because of a fixing mechanism not totally thought through.

Best Regards
Frank

Hi Frank,
The mounting surface has no adhesive. If it gets dirty, wash it with soap water and it will be as good as new.