ErichB

Chaseplane outage - we are a harsh crowd.

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Yesterday's outage showed two things. 

1.  The simming crowd are fickle and change attitude like the wind. 

2.  You are only as good as your last mistake in this business.

Thankfully I am not a developer - not sure how you guys deal with the flack you get when things go wrong, but it must be pretty disconcerting. But looking at yesterday's reactions, it does  show what a great product Chaseplane really is and how reliant people have become on it - even if it's still a beta.  (it was great even in Alpha).  I thought Opus and Ezdok were great,  but there's no way I'd want to go back to either anymore - not even as a backup.

Thanks for sorting it out quickly.  

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It depends on how you want to see things. The outage might also have demonstrated how important your initial decisions (like being online obligation) can be at a later stage when developing a software...

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5 minutes ago, costamesa said:

It depends on how you want to see things. The outage might also have demonstrated how important your initial decisions (like being online obligation) can be at a later stage when developing a software...

My commentary was more about the virtues of the product, not about business or infrastructure decisions.  We know offline is coming.

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Yes and I agree with you. Mine was just another perspective.

CP is a great product. Or have the potential to be a great product. The reaction also shows how people are already relying on it even when it is only beta. And that is how people react when they are "deprived off" what they are relying.

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1 hour ago, ErichB said:

Yesterday's outage showed two things. 

1.  The simming crowd are fickle and change attitude like the wind. 

2.  You are only as good as your last mistake in this business.

Thankfully I am not a developer - not sure how you guys deal with the flack you get when things go wrong, but it must be pretty disconcerting. But looking at yesterday's reactions, it does  show what a great product Chaseplane really is and how reliant people have become on it - even if it's still a beta.  (it was great even in Alpha).  I thought Opus and Ezdok were great,  but there's no way I'd want to go back to either anymore - not even as a backup.

Thanks for sorting it out quickly.  

Well...my two cents...

1. First of all I will not tend to generalise things since only a "handfull" of users comented on the outage (be assured that CP is used by much more than those who commented). You must also know that people deal the way or the other with the fact of not beeing able to use something they paid for (I know now comes the thing with development...see point 2)

2. CP in Alpha or Beta...yes again this could or could not be a valid point:

a) You paid for it and it is buggy or crashes somethimes on you? Yes..this could be seen as development

b) You paid for it but can't use it at all? Well this is another kind of trouble....

3. Some of users (and developers) don't like the idea of releasing unfinished products and asking for a fee for it. Imagine all devs releasing Alphas or Betas, making you pay for it and not beeing able to use the products...would be very frustrating indeed

As you see, there are alway many sides (or at least 2) of any issue. I believe that some of the statements are way off (or way way off) but that's the way it is out there.

I think some of these guys reacted like that because CP seams to be in development since ages (ages = long long time for a camera product). And I also think that many of the users complained a lot about the necessity of an internet connection which was announced that it will be removed and again took a lot of time to implement it (it's not implemented yet...........!). I also believe many of the users complained about the performance (I was one of them) and I feel, it has not been improoved at all (or not by much).

My opinion is that CP has to go from Beta to Final soon so that the team would be "forced" on improoving things rather then commenting..."it's a beta..."....

I love CP: I like the interface, I like the GUI, I like how easy you can work with it, I like some of the new features it has and I like that Keven reacts quickly to issues (even mails).

I hate CP only for it's requiered internet connection (which will be fixed soon) but mostly for it's performance (which I feel needs to be way better).

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I don't think "buggy" is the main issue, at least not for me.  To some degree the current service structure (online) is design to minimize piracy.  Developers have a right to protect their intellectual property and most customers understand and encourage it. However, there's a fine line between anti piracy measures and unfettered access to the service your "paying customer" rightfully expect (even demand).  Cross the line and you antagonize the people that make your business venture a success.

Double edged sword I guess.

Bill

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ChasePlane is an excellent product - that much is apparent from the outcry in the topic.

As for the developer response to the outage topic, I'm less than chuffed. Not even so much as an apology. I'd love to know the details as to why the outage occurred.

 

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What I saw yesterday during the chase plane outage was some of the worst outrages ever seen by some of the most frequented posters on avsim, lost all respect for them :/

Some of them have serious first world issues. 

We sometimes face major government sites downtime in our country and haven't seen such reaction .

Seriously gents , Its a game learn to relax when such things happen .

I wanted to sim badly too , made up the whole flightplan etc and then bammm no chaseplane.

Thankfully dint go bonkers yelling at the dev.

 

Kind regards,

Jaffer

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42 minutes ago, GlenWright said:

ChasePlane is an excellent product - that much is apparent from the outcry in the topic.

As for the developer response to the outage topic, I'm less than chuffed. Not even so much as an apology. I'd love to know the details as to why the outage occurred.

 

Me too.  I get that it's frustrating for the developer but he seriously annoyed me with that response - we're not all unreasonable trolls.  An explanation as to what happened, and how the issue will be prevented from happening again, is not too much to ask for.

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33 minutes ago, jafferhussain11 said:

What I saw yesterday during the chase plane outage was some of the worst outrages ever seen by some of the most frequented posters on avsim, lost all respect for them :/

Some of them have serious first world issues. 

We sometimes face major government sites downtime in our country and haven't seen such reaction .

Seriously gents , Its a game learn to relax when such things happen .

I wanted to sim badly too , made up the whole flightplan etc and then bammm no chaseplane.

Thankfully dint go bonkers yelling at the dev.

 

Kind regards,

Jaffer

Hi Jaffer,

I think there are a couple of reasons that people reacted the way they did - and I'm not making excuses for the over-exaggeration or rudeness of some people.  Firstly, this isn't the first time this kind of outage has happened - people expected it to be resolved from the first time.  Secondly, the developer ought to have reasonably been expected to foresee this kind of thing when he implemented the copy protection method he chose.  

I think people are generally fairly supportive of unforeseeable events that cause outages - but the CP outage was entirely foreseeable and preventable.

Regards,

Ady

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This wasn't meant to be another venting thread.  I'm pretty sure Keven get's it.

But come the end of this month, we will have Offline and a Recorder function and FSFX Packages will again be everyone's favourite developer.    The bi-polarity...

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45 minutes ago, jafferhussain11 said:

What I saw yesterday during the chase plane outage was some of the worst outrages ever seen by some of the most frequented posters on avsim, lost all respect for them :/

Some of them have serious first world issues. 

We sometimes face major government sites downtime in our country and haven't seen such reaction .

Seriously gents , Its a game learn to relax when such things happen .

I wanted to sim badly too , made up the whole flightplan etc and then bammm no chaseplane.

Thankfully dint go bonkers yelling at the dev.

 

Kind regards,

Jaffer

While i agree that some might have chosen the wrong words to express their anger, i can understand it to some extend. However, this poor horse has not just been beaten to death by now, it has been hung, drawn and quartered. its all about protecting your intellectual property without hurting legitimate customers. Its a payware developers responsibility....

And yes, its a first world problem, exactly like about 99% of all problems we are facing each day and sometimes raging about. Remember that next time you shake your fist at a slow driver in front of you.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, GlenWright said:

ChasePlane is an excellent product - that much is apparent from the outcry in the topic.

As for the developer response to the outage topic, I'm less than chuffed. Not even so much as an apology. I'd love to know the details as to why the outage occurred.

 

 

21 minutes ago, adyfoot said:

Me too.  I get that it's frustrating for the developer but he seriously annoyed me with that response - we're not all unreasonable trolls.  An explanation as to what happened, and how the issue will be prevented from happening again, is not too much to ask for.

They posted this on facebook: https://fsfxpackages.com/en/blog/2017/11/05/server-outage-nov-5-2017/

 

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Not having bought Chaseplane (actually for the very reason people were complaining about, i.e. it requiring an online connection), I wasn't one of the many complaining about that outage, but I did see the thread where people were doing so and was amazed at the amount of crybabies there were whining about it. Some of the comments about their flight sims being rendered unusable by not having an add-on working were laughable; like they couldn't hold down the spacebar and move a mouse to alter the view, oh, what a hardship lol.

It does say on the product page: 'Chaseplane is currently in Beta, you might stumble upon some issues'. They can't make it any clearer than that, can they? Sometimes it's embarrassing to witness the whining that comes out of a bunch of adults over their toy aeroplanes having a glitch.

Buy into a beta, expect the odd problem; don't want to put up with any problems, don't buy it until it is finished. Not rocket science.

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53 minutes ago, Chock said:

 Some of the comments about their flight sims being rendered unusable by not having an add-on working were laughable; like they couldn't hold down the spacebar and move a mouse to alter the view,

To be fair, you do become accustomed to using your sim in a particular way.  Head tracking is a very natural way to interface with a virtual environment in a VC.  It's not that people can't use a spacebar and mouse to look around, but lets's face it - it's an immersion breaker.    If that was the only way i could flightsim, I'd probably give it up entirely.    Pressing keys on a keyboard and using a mouse is no way to flightsim.  So I get people's frustration.

I don't think the fact that it's a beta has anything to do with this issue to be fair.   It could be a fully completed V1.0 product and still be reliant on the operational stability of the server provider to prevent falling over.

 

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29 minutes ago, ErichB said:

I don't think the fact that it's a beta has anything to do with this issue to be fair.   It could be a fully completed V1.0 product and still be reliant on the operational stability of the server provider to prevent falling over.

Not directly no, but since there is supposedly an offline mode coming shortly, and that is likely to be in there before it is out of beta, then it amounts to the same thing, i.e. it's not a fully rounded product yet in terms of the features which are intended.

Personally, I don't mind using the spacebar and the mouse to look about and zoom in, and I hated EZDOK, which was a convoluted mess to use and even buggered up the views in one of my aeroplanes until I uninstalled it. I do have Track IR but don't often use it, since it's a bit restricting to be having to put a hat on to fly a sim (yeah I know there's a clip for a headset too, but I don't always use a headset either, so I've got the hat clip version), and it always went against the grain to wear a baseball cap when 'flying' anyway, since it is dangerous to do so in real life, which is why any pics you ever see of me with a baseball cap on when near aeroplanes show me with the thing on backwards lol, not because I'm trying to look like some West Coast rapper or some such, it's purely for safety.

The one thing I will say that is good about Track IR though, is it does instill at least one good habit, which is it makes you look where you are going, and that does translate into 'muscle memory' to make you look before initiating a turn when flying VFR, and that is something which is very important. I can remember getting a right dressing down off an RAF instructor once for not looking before turning an aeroplane, he really tore a strip off me for having done that, and rightly so to be fair. I've never done that since, I can still remember his language even all these years later. He called me a 'f***ing word not allowed' amongst other things lol.

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2 minutes ago, Chock said:

I've got the hat clip version), and it always went the grain to wear a baseball cap when 'flying', since it is dangerous to do so in real life, which is why any pics you ever see of me with a baseball cap on when near aeroplanes show me with the thing on backwards lol, not because I'm trying to look like some West Coast rapper or some such, it's purely for safety.

Yo, I get you bro. :)

Since switching to VATSIM and airliner type flying almost exclusively for some time now,  I attach the clip to a  headset -  with both bits actually having a function - it's the most natural thing..  I hated the hat thing.  Apart from looking like a pillock - no matter how cool flightsimming was on any given day, you still looked like a blithering pillock. 

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3 hours ago, Woozie said:

Ah that's great - exactly what they should've posted as a response to the thread here.  Would've straightened things out for me no problem.  Instead, I saw a bit of an odd response that was unnecessarily grumpy and didn't address the outage.  I'm not following FSFX Packages on Facebook so wouldn't have seen that link if you didn't post it here.

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1 hour ago, Chock said:

amazed at the amount of crybabies there were whining about it. Some of the comments about their flight sims being rendered unusable by not having an add-on working were laughable; like they couldn't hold down the spacebar and move a mouse to alter the view, oh, what a hardship lol.

Alan, as the crybaby you're referring to, I feel I need to explain (for what it's worth)

As others have pointed out, it's a testament to just how great of a product Chaseplane really is. The outage caused a lot of people to come flooding to the forum to complain. I was a big EZDOK fan up until a few weeks ago. I had been using Chaseplane on and off up until P3D v4.1 dropped and it turned out EZDOK was causing issues with nosewheel steering. At that point I decided to move over to Chaseplane, so I spent a good while setting up a ton of views for all my planes, setting transitions, hotkeys, outside views etc. All was great. The always-online aspect didn't bother me as I never had a problem and I could check out community presets and all that great stuff. I became dependent on it (again, proof of an awesome program!) and it was as essential (if not moreso!) as Active Sky, REX, Navigraph charts...

So, when it's missing, you really miss it. and when it's missing because a server is down, it's annoying. I'd rather not sim than have to go back and awkwardly float around the cockpit with my space key held down like some chump when I'm hand-flying an approach and I just want to glance at something. But, others have no problem with that ;)

If Chaseplane was a rubbish program, no one would have noticed the outage yesterday and they certainly wouldn't have created two separate threads about it! 

It's in my top-5 flight sim addons. (maybe even top 3!) Good luck to Keven. I really can't wait to see what he has in store for us.

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2 hours ago, Chock said:

Not having bought Chaseplane (actually for the very reason people were complaining about, i.e. it requiring an online connection), I wasn't one of the many complaining about that outage, but I did see the thread where people were doing so and was amazed at the amount of crybabies there were whining about it. Some of the comments about their flight sims being rendered unusable by not having an add-on working were laughable; like they couldn't hold down the spacebar and move a mouse to alter the view, oh, what a hardship lol.

Pressing space didn't actually work for me.  I put it down to some kind of alteration that ChasePlane had made to my default camera settings?

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6 minutes ago, adyfoot said:

Pressing space didn't actually work for me.  I put it down to some kind of alteration that ChasePlane had made to my default camera settings?

Fair enough, but one would assume that using the menus to select a usable view whilst Chaseplane was down would still have been a workaround, or even editing a cemra config file as a workaround and having a 'spare' for that purpose.

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Some people have too much time on their hands and like nothing more than to complain - winge about something :mellow:, better to spend time watching the recent FSPackages ChasePlane presentaion at the recent Flight Sim show at RAF Cosford. It may provide some answers :biggrin:

 

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1 hour ago, brucefriday123 said:

Some people have too much time on their hands and like nothing more than to complain - winge about something :mellow:

And what exactly are you referring to?

 

2 hours ago, adyfoot said:

Ah that's great - exactly what they should've posted as a response to the thread here.  Would've straightened things out for me no problem.  Instead, I saw a bit of an odd response that was unnecessarily grumpy and didn't address the outage.  I'm not following FSFX Packages on Facebook so wouldn't have seen that link if you didn't post it here.

Couldn't agree more.

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8 hours ago, GlenWright said:

I'd love to know the details as to why the outage occurred.

If it was related to this: 

http://www.wbaltv.com/article/comcast-users-report-massive-internet-outage/13438155

Then it's entirely outside of the developers control.  In fact, this issue "today" is actually preventing me from working (real world work that pays the bills and buys the toys).

I can understand and appreciate some of the comments, some where simply just rude and agenda filled, others were just from frustration.  I can certainly sympathize with the frustration, and I know Keven is working on "alternative" solutions for when the product goes "live" (aka not Beta).

The online connection requirement for protecting the developers work has been highly successful (simple Google search can reveal just how successful this method of theft prevention has been relative to other big name 3rd party content providers ... you'll not find any viable cracks for CP). 

Cheers, Rob.

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