FFPS:FFTF question

[boez 85]

5 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Going faster means you will need a lower FFTF to keep the framerate as high as possible and avoid stutters. Flying faster means a lower framerate.

However , you will need more loading time as you are flying faster , to avoid blurries.

You probably end up with a higher FFTF value and use less 3D objects.

 

 

My frame rate is fixed at 30fps and has been for years therefore I'm more concerned about judicious use of CPU overhead. What my suggestion would do is shift any *available* CPU cycles to the terrain loading engine when your speed is increasing but of course if you are already at 100% CPU usage on core 0 then doing so will cause stutters. However exactly the same drawback occurs when increasing FTFF with altitude - a PMDG sim flying at 35000 ft still takes lots of CPU cycles which you may be moving over to the terrain engine via a higher FTFF and exasperating the situation...as we agree, you cannot magic up frames from this app just alter the balance. 

 

I must also make a reply to your comment re you feel the app is as good as it should be...does this preclude all future development then? What about other apps you're happy about? ;)

[Cruachan 705]

54 minutes ago, boez said:

Where in my post did I say I was seeing any problems? 

Hi boez,

My use of the word ‘you’ was intended to be interpreted in the generic or impersonal sense and not implying that I was aware of your sim’s performance under those conditions as described.

Regards,

Mike

[boez 85]

5 minutes ago, Cruachan said:

Hi boez,

My use of the word ‘you’ was intended to be interpreted in the generic or impersonal sense and not implying that I was aware of your sim’s performance under those conditions as described.

Regards,

Mike

I guess I got confused  and thought you were addressing me directly when you started the aforementioned post with 'Hi boez'...but I'm happy to accept that was not the case :)

[SteveW 1,792]

We need to think of this not as in "can we make it faster" but rather "can we allow it to continue as-is". Once the saturation limit is reached increasing FFTF will not help the requirement to pull in more data. We hit that fairly soon after leaving the ground. Gerard is correct in that we can only fly slower or slow down the fps.

[SteveW 1,792]

Let's say we are locked at 20fps on the slider. As I showed coming in low the FFTF change keeps the fps up so that the look-ahead can be maintained.

Let's make that 19fps.

We have gained just over 5% throughput.

 

Guys!

The original reports I had from some users of v1.0 that start the sim as User, but then started FFTFd v1.0 which forced to Admin meant theirs did not work - due to mis-matching privileges.

Now we have a few that started their sim as Admin then run v1.1 as User - they will not work as well.

Matching privileges is the key to success.

Run as Admin or run as User are simply ways to do things.

Run as User is more reliable because all users have the same privileges, admins do not. So there's always a chance the all-admin setup might fail to connect to some resources.

 

 

The confusion reigns over the forums due to guys that say "Must run as Admin" they are clearly and plainly wrong. Admin is only required to gain access to a restricted resource like the Admins Registry or other system settings.

If your User app is not changing system settings and can't run without Admin, it is either malware or it has been designed incorrectly.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

I know there are those that would complain they can't edit their text file unless they run as admin. That's incorrect as well.

The actual problem is: They can't edit their text file because it is read only. It most likely is read only because the folder has restricted access for users to make adjustments, so that malware can't make adjustments.

In Windows we are logged in and we are authenticated, we belong to the Users group.

In Windows we gain access to write to files and folders by being a member of a group, and the group is provided Permissions. Permissions are not Privileges.

So when we can't edit that file and we want to edit it, or our aircraft navigation system wants to write to a file there  - we know what we are doing and we are not malware - we grant the Permission for the Group we belong to - generally the Modify Allow permission is checked on a folder for the Users group so we gain Permission to write there.

Sorry - another wall of text for those that want the truth.

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

So let's make a folder on our D:\ drive D:\FS\

We own that folder and by that right we gain all access permissions.

Now let us install our FS and our addon app.

The addon app that writes to its program files folder or to the FS program files folder.

When we run this (user or admin) the apps write away merrily because we own their folders.

 

So making a private folder is pretty good get around. But it is only a get around and we know what we are doing. We can pose problems for some apps installed into Private Folders (not mine!).

 

Then I get a mail - some poor guy had a profile corruption and had to make a new profile and none of his stuff works. I get him to grant the Modify Allow for the Users group on that folder and their sim comes up as normal.

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

The upshot to all that is: The overriding logic shows the permission is king not the admin. I have had to endure some pretty discourteous remarks and discussions dismissing this as some kind of odd theory and even trying to ensure my own apps work reliably. Of course my own apps work properly as required by Windows and don't suffer from these kind of issues, run as admin or user go ahead! However I have to be sure users know what they are doing and have a successful flight simulator setup so that I don't get mail suggesting my stuff could be the cause of their issues, or indeed any apps that I consult on.

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

Another problem can be run into when changing the way we start the sim - run as.

We could have an app that's not communicating because of mismatched privileges.

Let's, for argument's sake, imagine the app is faulty in some way and delays the SimConnect server when it communicates successfully.

Now we change the way the sim starts up admin/user - the faulty app connects in and pauses the server.

Do we:

a) blame the app

or

b) blame the change on the way we start the sim?

 

Most of these circumstances are not generally considered in the way an application designer would understand it.

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[SteveW 1,792]

While I've got time I can pull out my statement:

"Let's, for argument's sake, imagine the app is faulty in some way and delays the SimConnect server when it communicates successfully."

In fact SimConnect when done right communicates nicely. But it's less of a sentence for understanding's sake.

The real problem is the reading and writing of values belonging to the simulator across the wall of protection.

FSPS FFTFd has to alter the FFTF value in the simulator's own memory. There are quite a few addons around that rely on reading or writing the values belonging to the simulator. These can't work with mis-matching privileges.

It is all there now for understanding the basic principles in operation if you don't mind the Wall of Text. The problems are of our own making, the design of Windows is sound.

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[Ted Striker 338]

1 hour ago, SteveW said:

These can't work with mis-matching privileges.

privileges or permissions? and what is the difference? This is all great information Steve and warrants its own pinned topic. I suspect most of people's flight sim problems are due to this permission/privilege mismatch issue that few understand, including myself.

Ted

[Ted Striker 338]

22 hours ago, Cruachan said:

I expect to be able to pause at any time and make adjustments to my preferred settings within the App to suit the prevailing circumstances until I achieve a good compromise.

If one can make changes to the FFTF app while the sim is running then that would suit my goal which is not having to stop and start the sim every time I want to see the effect of a new FFTF setting. Thanks for responding Mike.

Ted

[SteveW 1,792]

Yes Ted you can pause the sim and pull up FFTFd and alter your arrangements.

When you see "computer  jargon" that looks complicated, often it is not so bad as it sounds.

If we have a certain privilege level we might for example have access to a key and so we can open the door - we have permission to open the door.

Apps and Users acquire permission to things by having a level of privilege that allocates to them the permission to progress.

Running as Admin means giving your prisoners the master key so not only can they wake up at 2:30AM and find a more comfortable lavatory, but they can also raid the fridge as well.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by SteveW

[Ted Striker 338]

Well that just goes to show you what a generous guy I am. I have been running my sim on an administrator account since I built it in 2013. It sounds like I've given the prisoners access to the bathroom, fridge and everything else. I'm surprised it still runs as well as the day I built it. Fortunately the computer is only used for flight simming on my guest network and it has never seen a credit card number.

I am looking forward to seeing Dave Hodges and Simbol's upcoming document on setting up one's flight sim computer securely. We have thousands of threads on performance tweaks in these forums like the FFTF App but I think very few, myself included, know how to properly set up the windows OS so it runs Flights Simulators smoothly and securely. 

Glad to hear that the FFTF App can be changed while in the sim.

Thanks,

Ted

[SteveW 1,792]

Yes, in general there's not much to worry about. You have a layer of security even if you leave keys lying around. But the exploits are getting very clever now...a matter of time.