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Michael Moe

P3DV4.4:Blurry textures - specific I7-4770K

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Try HT ON , made THE differents on my system. Totally 

 

Michael Moe

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Hi Michael-

Exact same system here.

No blurries. Never have had.

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Had slow loading terrain and textures in general on windows 10, which went away on setting internal frames to unlimited.

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23 hours ago, newtie said:

Hi Michael-

Exact same system here.

No blurries. Never have had.

Okay, strange. I can reproduce it with the FSL A319 and the Maddog all over again. Seems like ht off is to much on my system using a heavy CPU aircraft. 

Thanks Michael Moe 

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On my last two quad builds (an i7-4790K and then an i7-7700K), HT on with an affinity mask of 245 (11110101) was what worked best for me.  You don't want Windows to put P3D threads on the secondary vCPU on either of the first two cores, so that the main thread and the rendering thread both run without being crowded by other processes, but the less processor intensive texture loading threads do seem to benefit from core sharing.

On the 6-core 8086K, HT off is working better for me.  I would guess the same holds true on the new 8-core 9th Gen CPUs.

Regards

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Having tried just about all the well-advertised tweaks in the .cfg file to eliminate blurries (none of them worked), I was surprised to discover that HT on does indeed produce crisp results compared to HT off. I run an ancient Intel i7 875K processor with overclocked Turbo Boost (to about 4GHz) using the Intel Extreme Tuning Utility (I cannot overclock in the BIOS as I have a MSI motherboard which is derived from an old HP desktop PC and strictly prohibits overclocking by such means).

I do not set an affinity mask in the .cfg file but instead use a free tool called coreprio by  Bitsum which enables some element of prioritised CPU affinity which is not strictly permanent in the sim (I have found that the affinity may not be required everywhere in the running of the sim and hence this provides real-time management of CPU affinity priority, only employing the scheme when the CPU load demands it); most other CPU affinity management is permanent and non-variable if set either through an affinity mask in the .cfg file or within the operating system itself, or indeed using Bitsum's Process Lasso. The settings in the coreprio program are a little experimental but with care a good compromise can be reached to optimise CPU performance. The results thus far are very promising and exactly what I have been trying to achieve with my hardware. 

Finally, it does beg the question why hasn't HT on been flagged up more often for providing a much crisper response in the sim to the loading of scenery? It could be that it may work with older generation processors such as mine but not with the latest generation processors which may well cope without much requirement for adjustment (although I do laugh when people report extreme problems with significantly better and more powerful hardware than mine!). Whether or not these benefits are as intended by greater use of multi-threading in Prepar3D v4.4 is unclear, although I have not heard any reports to that effect that LM have achieved this successfully. Also, the main gripe by some people is that HT on reduces performance (mainly fps) compared with HT off. I for one have found little such loss but admittedly with careful CPU management as described above (which could be the key). I don't  think that my investigations are the result of a placebo effect and there is quite definitely a marked improvement of the enjoyment and immersitivity within the sim itself. I am sure we are all slightly crazy demanding the best of everything in the sim squeezed  out of the obvious limitations of home-use desktop PC equipment when it may well be the case that the highly expensive airline-standard simulators probably pay little attention to the physical accuracy of the view outside: indeed, these airline simulators are not for "joy rides" and are rather more professional training mediums for practicing procedures and dealing with emergencies etc.

Anyway, that is my encouraging experience with HT on!

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13 minutes ago, LecLightning56 said:

Finally, it does beg the question why hasn't HT on been flagged up more often for providing a much crisper response in the sim to the loading of scenery?

Because that is the default setting in the BIOS when you buy your computer?  Personally, with my 8086 w/all cores OC'd I get better performance and crisp clear textures with it off.  I was one of the first to discover that turning off HT removed the blurries.  Now, for an old CPU like the i7 4770K or i7 6700K, perhaps having it on is best.  I strongly recommend individuals check out their performance/textures with HT on and off.  You might be pleasantly surprised.

As I have mentioned more than once, Intel is removing HT as HT does not improve modern CPU performance with the modern CPU's - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/leaked-benchmarks-show-intel-is-dropping-hyperthreading-from-i7-chips/

Here's are the results of two a flight using the i7 7700K with HT on versus my latest system with the i7 8086K with HT off using the QW787 from KLAX to KSFO over MSE California and ASP4 and FSDT KLAX and FB KSFO:

with i7 7700K w/HT on:

Minimum frame rate was 10.4 fps, Maximum was 73.7 fps
Average frame rate for running time of 3912 secs = 33.4 fps
Maximum AI traffic for session was 301 aircraft

with i7 8086K (w/HT off):

Minimum frame rate was 29.1 fps, Maximum was 76.9 fps
Average frame rate for running time of 3508 secs = 56.1 fps
Maximum AI traffic for session was 253 aircraft

In my case the performance was much better w/HT off.  I already know the textures are better with HT off but the difference texture quality is extremely minor.  My only recommendation is that everyone go out and buy an i7 8086K like Bob Scott (w6kd) and I have done.  Simming is so much more enjoyable.  You would be wise to read the many other threads in this forum regarding this issue.  I do believe the consensus was HT off for most.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/24/2019 at 8:25 PM, Jim Young said:

My only recommendation is that everyone go out and buy an i7 8086K like Bob Scott (w6kd) and I have done.  Simming is so much more enjoyable.  You would be wise to read the many other threads in this forum regarding this issue.  I do believe the consensus was HT off for most.

 

Hi Jim , 

Seems like a fair recommendation giving all the goodies we have now a days.😉 I just have to have the "time" . (the price between I9-9900K and I7-8086K is only 50 euroes in Denmark ?? still go with the 8086K? 🤔)

As a side note to my observations i have to say that using the Scenery Configurator by Lorby and only enable the scenery for a specific flight helps at least with loading times but it might also be contributing to this fast texture loading as i must admit that i forgot that i was only using departure and destination airport enabled (along with FTXOPENLCEU) in the test with HT ON.

LOWS by DD design has alot of photoreal textures and the mountains where very sharp in the FSLA320 which normally is not achieveable with HT off.

 

Michael Moe 

Edited by Michael Moe

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Recommending to buy i7/i9 processors in the same sentence as recommending to turn HT off... guys, seriously?

If you think that HT off is the magic trick, why not saving some money and going for the processors not offering HT at all instead? If you think, HT off is the miraculous super hint, recommend an i7-9700K instead. No need to turn HT off there...

Or do you get those HT processors and turn HT off due to the slightly bigger cache? I simply do not get it, sorry...

How many time this is now discussed here? Unbelievable... Another attempt: unless you system is configured completely bad, putting the 010101 (and so on) affinity mask (1365 for a 8086K as an example) has EXACTLY the same effect as turning off HT, with the big advantage that your rig and all other software than P3D will not run on a castrated CPU. Move external addons via batch file or Process Lasso or whatever means off Core0 and you get a perfectly smooth sim that runs equally good as with simply disabling HT.

Sorry if this post sounds bitchy, but it really annoys me that people can still recommend to spend 200$ additional for a CPU with HT (8086K, 8700K, 9900K) and in the same turn recommend to then turn HT off...

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46 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Recommending to buy i7/i9 processors in the same sentence as recommending to turn HT off... guys, seriously?

If you think that HT off is the magic trick, why not saving some money and going for the processors not offering HT at all instead? If you think, HT off is the miraculous super hint, recommend an i7-9700K instead. No need to turn HT off there...

Or do you get those HT processors and turn HT off due to the slightly bigger cache? I simply do not get it, sorry...

How many time this is now discussed here? Unbelievable... Another attempt: unless you system is configured completely bad, putting the 010101 (and so on) affinity mask (1365 for a 8086K as an example) has EXACTLY the same effect as turning off HT, with the big advantage that your rig and all other software than P3D will not run on a castrated CPU. Move external addons via batch file or Process Lasso or whatever means off Core0 and you get a perfectly smooth sim that runs equally good as with simply disabling HT.

Sorry if this post sounds bitchy, but it really annoys me that people can still recommend to spend 200$ additional for a CPU with HT (8086K, 8700K, 9900K) and in the same turn recommend to then turn HT off...

Never the less , i do stil have better texture loading with HT ON , specific I7-4770K. 😉 Case closed here.....

Michael Moe

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HT on in general gives more overall performance, but P3D might be somewhat different. You never know if P3D in some situations is just producing heat instead of visible frames.

 

On my rig I don't see a noticable difference using HT off or on. THe reason why I use HT off is that I can do a slightly better OC (air cooled) due to lower temperatures. Again, is a frequency change from 4,9 to 5,0 noticable? No, it's not. Still, I chose to do it that way. I use my rig for gaming only.

 

Karl

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Posted (edited)

@kaha Then why the heck did you spend extra money for the i9? Seriously, I do not get it, the i7-9700K would have been the perfect CPU for your needs. And don't tell me that it was due to the bigger cache...

@Michael Moe don't we argue for the same? HT on is the way to go, if you have a HT capable processor... case indeed closed ;-)

Edited by AnkH
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1 minute ago, AnkH said:

@kaha Then why the heck did you spend extra money for the i9? Seriously, I do not get it, the i7-9700K would have been the perfect CPU for your needs. And don't tell me that it was due to the bigger cache......

Yes, you are right. My thinking was that if LM changes something regarding thread usage and I have to switch HT on then, I want to be ready. However, when this happens my CPU is aged then.

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7 hours ago, AnkH said:

Recommending to buy i7/i9 processors in the same sentence as recommending to turn HT off... guys, seriously?

If you think that HT off is the magic trick, why not saving some money and going for the processors not offering HT at all instead? If you think, HT off is the miraculous super hint, recommend an i7-9700K instead. No need to turn HT off there...

Or do you get those HT processors and turn HT off due to the slightly bigger cache? I simply do not get it, sorry...

How many time this is now discussed here? Unbelievable... Another attempt: unless you system is configured completely bad, putting the 010101 (and so on) affinity mask (1365 for a 8086K as an example) has EXACTLY the same effect as turning off HT, with the big advantage that your rig and all other software than P3D will not run on a castrated CPU. Move external addons via batch file or Process Lasso or whatever means off Core0 and you get a perfectly smooth sim that runs equally good as with simply disabling HT.

Sorry if this post sounds bitchy, but it really annoys me that people can still recommend to spend 200$ additional for a CPU with HT (8086K, 8700K, 9900K) and in the same turn recommend to then turn HT off...

Currently I have an i7-4770K Oc@4.50GHz with HT Off. If I put it back HT on, which AF should I put in the CFG?

Thanks,

Richard

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For a four core processor with HT, an Affinity Mask of "85" will result in the same as HT off (Binary Code: 01010101).

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23 minutes ago, AnkH said:

For a four core processor with HT, an Affinity Mask of "85" will result in the same as HT off (Binary Code: 01010101).

Thank you Chris.

Richard

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3 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

Currently I have an i7-4770K Oc@4.50GHz with HT Off. If I put it back HT on, which AF should I put in the CFG?

Thanks,

Richard

I have to say that i use all cores and no AM at all with my experience. I do use Process Lasso to put some applikations on the last 2 cores. 

Michael Moe 

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6 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

I have to say that i use all cores and no AM at all with my experience. I do use Process Lasso to put some applikations on the last 2 cores. 

Michael Moe 

At the beginning of the first P3Dv4, I had HT on. Not being satisfied I changed to HT Off. For the moment I will do some tests with HT on + AM=85.

Since P3Dv4 has now evolved a little more (v4.4), I will try HT On again without AM. Btw, I have not Process Lasso...

Richard

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11 hours ago, DrumsArt said:

Currently I have an i7-4770K Oc@4.50GHz with HT Off. If I put it back HT on, which AF should I put in the CFG?

Thanks,

Richard

Go here and try a few...

Cheers,

Mark

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