Why is it some people complain about..what is not right instead of suggesting what it should be (be specific).There is a saying. "Most of us go through life not knowing what we want..but we are all darn sure...what we have is just isn't it"Manny

Peter; I'm as amazed as you are that we're still confined to a rectangular display (20+ years) instead of virtual reality displays which by now should have been sufficient developed for public use; it is with this technology that the full use of vc's can be archieved in a variety of rpg's and all kind of simulators. I have seen loose foil that could be twisted to surround our heads 180 deg., while an image was displayed. It seems like something or someone is holding the developement back......In the meantime trackir approaches that goal somewhat but no pheripheral view what is lacking for spotting that flashing amber light in the far corner of the overhead panel before it gets red.Paul@ehgg

<><I am just trying to understand here, are those in favor of changing what we have advocating a solution for the masses, or not?

><>>><a rectangular display...>>>I am just trying to understand here, are those in favor of>changing what we have advocating a solution for the masses, or>not?What Paul says about virtual reality headsets is probably the best way in the future for a number of experience simulations whether down hill Skiing or flight simulations.What we are stuck with now is a square box to look at. But hey! this is a simulation which means using every trick in the book and some of those incredibly clever and creative minds at MS to fill in the gaps.If we cannot have Peripheral views as the real deal then trick us into thinking we have ;-)If we scroll in a VC to an area of the panel we need to access then let it grow and detail in front of our eyes for access.......Peter

Thanks. That is a cool suggestion.Rich

It has already been hinted at by an MS blogger that 2D panels will remain in FSX. Good thing, or I would have to stay with FS2004.Take care,--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

>George the fact that people cling to the old 2D panel method>is because MS have not yet come up with an ideal solution.Peter,Did you consider a possibility there may NOT be an ideal solution your are hoping for? Certainly the biggest obstacle is the finite size of your monitor and its flatness.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

Hi, Peter.I would like to see them do away with the 2D panel. The only problem is the inability, in VC, to separate the Panel from the Scenery / outside view. This is absolute must is you want use a Projector or 2 monitors with separate views. If they can find out how to do that, Good by 2D. TV

Hmm, while I wouldn't describe it the same way, I *think* that you'll be able to get the effect you want in FSX. Ping me again when it comes out if you can't figure out how to work it on your own.

>>Is what you are saying here that the 2D is only good for IMC>flying where you do not need to see out?>The thing is Peter, that most users still have a 17" or 19" monitor. You might dislike 2D and sub-panels but I personally hate to pan around in a VC looking for a miniatuare gauge I cannot read because of its size. So before 3D goggles become standard to everyone, I don't want to fly a simulation like the PT TU-154 from the VC, it just doesn't do it for me. To each their own I guess. Regards,Daniel

>>IMO there's still no better methode as a 2D panel for>complex airliners. GA aircraft might be fine with VC, but not>airliners.<>>Is what you are saying here that the 2D is only good for IMC>flying where you do not need to see out?>No, but airliners have a lot more dials, gauges, and switches than do GA aircraft and many of those are in positions that can't be easily accessed by using a VC.>Otherwise I do not understand the arguement as some GA are>just as complex as airliners.>uh, ever looked at a 747-200 or DC-10 cockpit?>As a real world pilot I could not fly a real aircraft if the>views resembled those from a 2D panel. It would be like flying>while looking through a toilet roll ;-)>would you fly in an aircraft where you had to take 30 seconds to shift your view away from the windscreen to the overhead, walk through the cockpit to be able to reach a switch, flip the switch, then move back to your seat again?That's what you get with VCs.>I am not saying the VC as it stands is correct but it does>give a far better Periferal view than those available in the>claustraphobic 2 D.View maybe, but accessibility of panel elements is far worse.

I can't use a headset because of my bad eyes (unless you were to design them such that they could automatically correct for every eye condition possible).So your solution is impractical to say the least. It would also add several thousand Euros (the current cost for a decent full VR system) to the cost of running FS...

DanielExactly the point I am making. Both methods have huge drawbacks "Jack of all trades master of none".The fact that both co-exist is a reflection that neither in its present form is satisfactory.I appreciate we are stuck with a flat square screen to view so there will be no perfect answer.Having said that I am sure there is a better answer incorporating ideas from both. Maybe the 2D for sub panels to materialise out of the VC on demand.On demand could be in an automated way or easy access way which doesnt interfere with your IFR scan or views outside.Anyway I am sure the MS team are clever enough to do something in this important area.Peter

>Hmm, while I wouldn't describe it the same way, I *think* that you'll be able to get the effect you want in FSX. Ping me again when it comes out if you can't figure out how to work it on your own.

Does anyone use Active Camera :-hmmm You can simply move around the cockpit and save views. For instance you can save views of the throttle, radios, overhead etc then bring them back up later with a key press. If there must be a separate 2D view system I hope we can disable it.