This one caught my eye on a payware website, and I was gobsmacked to read that a Prepar3D v4.5 Professional Plus licence ($2300!) is required to use the weapons system governing droppable and fireable objects. 

What are your thoughts on this? I don't mean the LM licencing which I am sure that very few people on this forum actually qualify for (and I believe we are not permitted to discuss), but the fact that what is basically very much akin to the FSX version of the Virtavia B-1B (which I own and think is a fun model fit for entertainment) is suddenly elevated to this standard without apparently significant advances in the complexity of the aircraft per se, unless someone can correct me with that one. Perhaps the weapons system is very complex and hence warrants the Pro Plus compatibility only but one wonders who in that category would actually train with this vehicle at its current state of development. The Virtavia B-1B is effectively the cockpit layout as delivered to the USAF and the real-world B-1B has since undergone significant upgrades which I do not believe the Prepar3D 4.5 version has simulated.  

Edit:

I must stress that the Prepar3D v4.5 version of the Virtavia B-1B is available at low cost but it is merely the use of the weapons system which necessitates the Pro Plus licence of Prepar3D v4.5. Please do not think incorrectly that the vendor is requesting massive sums of money from the user for using the weapons system, if you wish to use this extra capability then a Pro Plus licence is required from LM, not from the vendor. I hope that this clears up any ambiguity.  

Edited September 25, 20196 yr by LecLightning56

In general I have issues with developers charging more dependent on which p3d license you have unless there are significant changes between the versions, which usually there aren't. If anything, it's punishing people who are honest about not qualifying for a lower-cost p3d license by forcing them to pay more elsewhere as well. That's either going to encourage licensure dishonestly, or piracy of the add-ons, neither of which is a terribly optimal outcome.

And if there are significant changes between the versions, I have a problem with that as well, because there isn't any difference as far as the sim goes (beyond the Academic watermark) across the p3d versions, so why should someone with an academic license get a lower-fidelity add-on?

Now, you make that B1 an actual training tool - as in, this is so good that it counts in an actual Air Force pilot's log book as actual B1 training, that's a different story. Of course, if that were the case, the Air Force should be buying it for the pilot. And while we're at it, the Air Force should probably be investing in better sims than an upgraded Microsoft game with a payware aircraft for the guys who are supposed to defend the country with nuclear weapons. 😉

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, eslader said:

In general I have issues with developers charging more dependent on which p3d license you have unless there are significant changes between the versions, which usually there aren't. If anything, it's punishing people who are honest about not qualifying for a lower-cost p3d license by forcing them to pay more elsewhere as well. That's either going to encourage licensure dishonestly, or piracy of the add-ons, neither of which is a terribly optimal outcome.

And if there are significant changes between the versions, I have a problem with that as well, because there isn't any difference as far as the sim goes (beyond the Academic watermark) across the p3d versions, so why should someone with an academic license get a lower-fidelity add-on?

Now, you make that B1 an actual training tool - as in, this is so good that it counts in an actual Air Force pilot's log book as actual B1 training, that's a different story. Of course, if that were the case, the Air Force should be buying it for the pilot. And while we're at it, the Air Force should probably be investing in better sims than an upgraded Microsoft game with a payware aircraft for the guys who are supposed to defend the country with nuclear weapons. 😉

 

 

 

Thought I would get the record straight with my original posting where I have now stressed that the developer is not charging more, rather that a LM Pro Plus licence is required for additional capability with the product (and hence the extra cost). The Virtavia product is actually competitively priced.  

This developer isn't, but some do.

 

This developer is doing the other end of this malignant spectrum  -- You only get the whole product if you have the Pro Plus license.

This is kind of like saying you only get to drive a Lexus if you have a commercial driver's license - something the vast majority of licensed drivers do not have because they do not need one. The rest of you schlubs get Scions.

Developers of add on products for a system that does not have material differences between licenses should not be making distinctions between those licenses. I have a p3d license. *Which* license I have is not only unimportant here on Avsim, but it should be unimportant to the addon makers as well. If a student wants to learn all the systems on the B1 simulation, she should be able to.

It's especially BS with this particular product. It's a B1 bomber. No one is buying that thing to *train.* They're buying it to have fun. Like I said in the first reply, real B1 pilots are not training on an addon to p3d. They're training on bespoke multi-million-dollar full motion simulators at Ellsworth, Dyess, and Kirtland.

So denying "non-professionals" access to any aspect of the p3d version is asinine, because the only Pro-Plus license holders who are actually professional B1 pilots aren't touching the thing.

 

Edited September 25, 20196 yr by eslader

Hi,

the ProPlus version unlocks the full P3D functionality. This Virtavia product must be one of the few planes on the end user market that actually makes use of that. This has nothing to do with any "standard", it is not "better" or "elevated" in any way. The flightsim part of P3D and the plane itself are still the same. But attachment points, guns, bombs, missiles, health points and whatnot are working, plus the standard connection protocols (DIS, CIGI) and the Multichannel option. And you get Sim Operator to run your scenarios with a bit of advanced AI functionality for the objects in them. 

So what the developer did was to use the advanced SDK features that are only available in the Pro Plus to weaponize the bird. Why not, at least that is a native feature.

There are a few people using the ProPlus Developer license. Maybe they are the target audience.

Best regards

Edited September 25, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

5 minutes ago, eslader said:

does not have material differences between licenses s

The Pro Plus is functionally different. One of the differences is that it has a working weapons simulation and you can actually shoot at and destroy stuff, and that is what the developer of the B1 made use of. This simply doesn't work with any of the other licenses. They could have gone the TacPack route, but they didn't. They will have their reasons.

Best regards

Edited September 25, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

I'd forgotten about the "weapons system" in the pro-plus license. You're definitely correct about that, but I think you also pointed out where these guys should have gone, which was to use TacPack. I still do not believe that a real B1 crew is going to be training in p3d, so limiting this functionality to people with an insanely expensive license that hardly anyone will have seems to be a waste of time.

 

3 minutes ago, eslader said:

I'd forgotten about the "weapons system" in the pro-plus license. You're definitely correct about that, but I think you also pointed out where these guys should have gone, which was to use TacPack. I still do not believe that a real B1 crew is going to be training in p3d, so limiting this functionality to people with an insanely expensive license that hardly anyone will have seems to be a waste of time.

 

I am inclined to agree that the TacPack route is a more logical choice for the functionality that some may seek to practice rather than to factor out most of us interested mortals, but I doubt if we shall get any responses from any real-world crew who would claim to use this as a serious tool. It may be that the functionality applied to an otherwise fun product is aimed more at those in a more diverse training environment than considerations of USAF B-1B operations, which I suppose could make sense.

23 minutes ago, eslader said:

a real B1 crew is going to be training in p3d

Even if they do, they only need one copy of the plane. So there is not a lot to be gained.

The B1 has a long history (IIRC more than 40 years since first flight, the last one was built 30 years ago), so I guess that there will be a couple of "real" simulators around too. So that can't be it.

Best regards

Edited September 25, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

6 minutes ago, LecLightning56 said:

It may be that the functionality applied to an otherwise fun product is aimed more at those in a more diverse training environment than considerations of USAF B-1B operations, which I suppose could make sense.

Or it was just really easy to make, so the developer added it because he could.

At $19.95 per month the ProPlus Devel license is expensive, but not insanely so. There's bound to be quite a few people out there using it. Getting expensive "things" seems to be en vogue these days anyway. Take a look at the official P3D forums, how many views the topics in the ProPlus section get (500 - 1500). 

Best regards

Edited September 25, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

3 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Or it was just really easy to make, so the developer added it because he could.

At $19.95 per month the ProPlus Devel license is expensive, but not insanely so. There's bound to be quite a few people out there using it. Getting expensive "things" seems to be en vogue these days anyway.

Best regards

This is getting into the realms of rich kids with their toys, but we are not permitted to discuss eligibility for LM licences here of course!

10 hours ago, LecLightning56 said:

This one caught my eye on a payware website, and I was gobsmacked to read that a Prepar3D v4.5 Professional Plus licence ($2300!) is required to use the weapons system governing droppable and fireable objects. 

I have to agree.

That is the decision of the developer and a dumb one at that imo, given there are other developers that don't take that approach with modern aircraft weapon systems they (Virtavia) clearly are 1: not interested in selling their product to the flight sim masses who like studying the aircraft in an academic sense or 2: severely limited in the marketing department or 3: have had a licensing restriction imposed upon them by the Aircraft manufacturer?

All the above are speculation on my part however the outcome results in a severely limited market for the specific AC package.

Back to studying my 740 page FA18E manual and flying the superbug (with weapons systems enabled).

14 hours ago, LecLightning56 said:

I must stress that the Prepar3D v4.5 version of the Virtavia B-1B is available at low cost but it is merely the use of the weapons system which necessitates the Pro Plus licence of Prepar3D v4.5. Please do not think incorrectly that the vendor is requesting massive sums of money from the user for using the weapons system, if you wish to use this extra capability then a Pro Plus licence is required from LM, not from the vendor. I hope that this clears up any ambiguity.  

They probably want to stop casual users from picking up a cheap B1B Lancer on ebay, and then using their knowledge of the weapons system simulation in P3D to start a war in the Middle East....

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by Christopher Low

13 hours ago, eslader said:

 You're definitely correct about that, but I think you also pointed out where these guys should have gone, which was to use TacPack. 

TacPack doesn't work with P3D Pro, does it, so not much use unless you are a student.

Edited September 26, 20196 yr by srce

4 hours ago, srce said:

TacPack doesn't work with P3D Pro, does it, so not much use unless you are a student.

You lost me there - as it doesn't relate to the OP post and additionally if you are a student that is why the academic license is available and why there are study level AC available in the academic P3D.