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whitav8

VR Flight SIm cockpit review of the HP Reverb

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   This is not a complete review of the Reverb - just how it feels to me with respect to being at the pilot's eyepoint and using the cockpit instruments primarily.

   I have had an Odyssey+ since last Thanksgiving and really have enjoyed it - except for the lack of clarity. Actually, that issue has improved over the last two months with some of the Microsoft and SteamVR improvements having to do with "RenderTargetScale" and other similar issues. I have a great CPU - a 9700K at 5Ghz - and a medium speed RTX2070 - so I ran the SuperSampling up to about 2000x2500 and used SteamVR "auto" reprojection for a minimum of stutter when looking out the side window at an airport full of static airplanes. Still my experience was I had to "lean in" to read gauges that weren't really close to me - some cockpits were fine but most airliners weren't - I could see the numbers on a PFD for speed and altitude but I had to know what I expected it to be and the numbers were fuzzy - a bit of strain. The Odyssey+ color vibrance was great - just makes the scenery really beautiful and especially black for night flying. With the SDE filter, it was very difficult to see pixels. When the Reverb was announced with 2160x2160 native along with the higher number of subpixels, my interest became very strong. I waited through all the introductory problems and looked for mention of clarity and performance. Then I saw chiliwili69's analysis of the Reverb and Index on the IL-2 Virtual Reality and VR controllers forum. His through-the-lens photos and comments (and benchmarks) on frametime performance really captured my interest. I waited and waited - would Samsung produce a similar resolution system with OLEDs? Then just days ago, the HP Store dropped the price $100 USD and I ordered the Reverb and after a few days use, I wanted to encourage all the flightsim pilots with a very brief report.

   First off, the installation was very easy since I had all the WMR / SteamVR software already and tested/updated with the Samsung. Unplug one, and substitute the other. I was using a powered ValveLink box for the USB3 and HDMI cables without problem. I used the ValveLink USB3 port, added a 6 foot Display Port extension cable, connected to the last Display Port of my RTX2070 (I have three HD monitors), rebooted just for luck, and all was working immediately. OMG - the clarity in the WMR CliffHouse was what I needed to see right away - just like an HD monitor - the edges were sharp and text far away was readable. I have eyeglasses that are 130mm wide and they fit inside the Reverb (carefully) until I can get the inserts from vroptician (widmovr was sold out). I am adding KlearKare lens protectors as well so that when I have friends with glasses try the Reverb, I don't have to worry. I set the SteamVR Supersampling at 2160x2116 (also tried a little more - no apparent change).
   Now for the real issue at hand. There was a lot of discussion about both physical sweet spot (how do I fit it on my head to see clearly - I have 64.5mm IPD fortunately) and then the gaze sweet spot (how clear is the display as I look to the edge of the field of view). For me, the physical sweet spot for seated VR is fine - I do have to push it around a little but maybe a little less than for the Odyssey+. The gaze sweet spot is the critical issue - how much can I see clearly so I can really read it before I have to move my whole head and re-center. My informal testing of both WWII fighters (IL-2), modern fighters (F18 - DCS and P3D) and Q400 (Aerofly FS2) airliners is the following - I get approximately 50% of total field of view away from center that is remarkably clear - crisp numbers and text in general. If the gauges outside of that are needle pointers or caution lights, I can grasp what they are indicating ( as clear as the Odyssey+ straight on was ) without changing my head position - otherwise I do move my head. As one who has worn their eyeglasses since sixth grade, I naturally move my head to center my foveal vision (about +- 5 degrees) anyway so I can carefully discern the gauge value. The center scan for most aircraft (speed, altitude, vertical velocity, heading, and possible moving map ) is all clear without moving my head! I built flight sims for big companies in my career and I know what the EFIS displays look like - just like this. For the Q400 at the left seat eyepoint, I was impressed that I could even read the right seat PFD speed and altitude numbers. The EICAS in the center, the comm panels, and even the CDU flight management display is easily read WITHOUT leaning in.
   Are there some cons - from the cockpit view arena only? A couple: the daytime scenes are a little less vibrant but probably more like real life - but the edge clarity of terrain and mountain textures, buildings, and static planes on the ground is much better. Other AI / MP traffic is clear - formation flight is better. Night-time is more gray pixels due to the LCD displays which make the ground and parts of the cockpit look washed out - but some scenery areas like Innsbruck in FS2 look very real - the building textures and lights are just so clear. The performance as compared to the same SteamVR pixel dimensions (for Odyssey+ versus the Reverb ) seem about the same (maybe 10% less) - I am testing that right now using IL-2 chiliwili69 benchmarks. Obviously, a RTX2080ti would help - but $$$. There is some minor SDE in the clear blue sky. Not sure about the need for AA yet - the clarity shows the edges.
   There are other pros and cons covered in a lot of other reviews (FOV, comfort, pupil swim (I don't notice it the cockpit), godrays,etc.) - but I am just very impressed with the clarity which was such a drag to explain to my flight sim friends who stuck to their monitors. This is really a great step forward for VR.

chiliwili69s report:
https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/53603-valve-index-vs-hp-reverb-through-the-lens-pictures/

Edited by whitav8
  • Like 2

PC=9700K@5Ghz+RTX2070  VR=HP Reverb|   Software = Windows 10 | Flight SIms = P3D, CAP2, DCS World, IL-2,  Aerofly FS2

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🤣

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Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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I know - when I finished - I thought TL;DR


PC=9700K@5Ghz+RTX2070  VR=HP Reverb|   Software = Windows 10 | Flight SIms = P3D, CAP2, DCS World, IL-2,  Aerofly FS2

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6 hours ago, whitav8 said:

I know - when I finished - I thought TL;DR

I did read it, it just took me a while before I was ready to dive in! 🙂

I'm glad its working out for you, but I remain wary. I REALLY kind of dislike the WMR/Steam software combo (and the horrifying controllers) and find it super-clunky to the verge of being annoying, so it would take quite a bit of convincing to get me back into WMR........

 


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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8 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

I did read it, it just took me a while before I was ready to dive in! 🙂

I'm glad its working out for you, but I remain wary. I REALLY kind of dislike the WMR/Steam software combo (and the horrifying controllers) and find it super-clunky to the verge of being annoying, so it would take quite a bit of convincing to get me back into WMR........

 


What about the Valve Index? Does it use the same software or is it better?


"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." [Abraham Lincoln]

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2 hours ago, Murmur said:


What about the Valve Index? Does it use the same software or is it better?

It uses Steam VR without the clunky WMR word not allowed....... Steam VR is not quite as polished as the oculus software, but its light years ahead of WMR

  • Upvote 1

Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 1x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1000GB / 5 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity each / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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OK - I've had an Odyssey+ for almost a year and I am very used to WMR so I admit that it is a lot of steps BUT the tracking for seated flightsim is just fine. Maybe someday, we can just all use OpenVR or something similar.

I'm not trying to talk anyone else into the Reverb BUT I do think that clarity is really awesome. I started with a DK2 and now I can really see well - I want to be able to program the Flight Management CDU just as you would in a modern airliner. The Quality Wings 787 in P3D looks about as good as the Q400 in Aerofly FS2 (which also has the most amazing framerate )

Please check out the forum link I gave above (at the bottom of the text )and you will see that chiliwili69 ended up with both the Reverb and the Index - he thought the Index is overall a better choice but there is no doubt that the Reverb is the clearest - and I am saying that it is clear for the center 50 degrees FOV in both directions so I can read instruments within that without moving my head. I ordered from the HPstore (with the $100 off ) hoping I would like it but ready to return it after 30 days - wanted to see just what crisp viewing was like. I will continue to test but I do believe that I will keep it - $499 - is a great price for a ready to go VR system.

 

 

  • Like 1

PC=9700K@5Ghz+RTX2070  VR=HP Reverb|   Software = Windows 10 | Flight SIms = P3D, CAP2, DCS World, IL-2,  Aerofly FS2

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15 hours ago, whitav8 said:

OK - I've had an Odyssey+ for almost a year and I am very used to WMR so I admit that it is a lot of steps BUT the tracking for seated flightsim is just fine. Maybe someday, we can just all use OpenVR or something similar.

I'm not trying to talk anyone else into the Reverb BUT I do think that clarity is really awesome. I started with a DK2 and now I can really see well - I want to be able to program the Flight Management CDU just as you would in a modern airliner. The Quality Wings 787 in P3D looks about as good as the Q400 in Aerofly FS2 (which also has the most amazing framerate )

Please check out the forum link I gave above (at the bottom of the text )and you will see that chiliwili69 ended up with both the Reverb and the Index - he thought the Index is overall a better choice but there is no doubt that the Reverb is the clearest - and I am saying that it is clear for the center 50 degrees FOV in both directions so I can read instruments within that without moving my head. I ordered from the HPstore (with the $100 off ) hoping I would like it but ready to return it after 30 days - wanted to see just what crisp viewing was like. I will continue to test but I do believe that I will keep it - $499 - is a great price for a ready to go VR system.

 

 

I can confirm that! Reverb is superior in Flightsim. Tracking issues not remarkable there


Regards,

Marcus P.

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Hi guys,

 

I'm still very in doubt about buying the Rift S or the reverb......

 

After thinking a bit I am willing to spend some cash on a gtx2080 and a i7 9700k and some high end memory.

I have a rift cv1 right now and looking for some better vr experience.

 

I've been reading so many reviews about defect reverbs that I am very hesitant to spend the cash on it.

The rift s is cheaper and performance will probably be better than the reverb.

 

Also I read some negative things about washed out colors in the reverb and a very small sweet spot.

Coming from a cv1 will a rift s give me the upgrade I've been looking for??

 

Thanks

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi guys,

 

I'm still very in doubt about buying the Rift S or the reverb......

 

After thinking a bit I am willing to spend some cash on a gtx2080 and a i7 9700k and some high end memory.

I have a rift cv1 right now and looking for some better vr experience.

 

I've been reading so many reviews about defect reverbs that I am very hesitant to spend the cash on it.

The rift s is cheaper and performance will probably be better than the reverb.

 

Also I read some negative things about washed out colors in the reverb and a very small sweet spot.

Coming from a cv1 will a rift s give me the upgrade I've been looking for??

 

Thanks

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

Buying a Reverb is still an RMA/warranty gamble imo. Even after the revisions I just don’t feel comfort buying one because of a possibility of still being defective. You can listen to others saying theirs works perfectly all you want...its not 100% chance you will have a perfect one.(i prefer to feel not so lucky with hardware reliability lotteries)
That is not a worry at all with the Rift S.

As for colors I felt the Reverb does night better and colors overall.(I’m a huge night flyer)

.As for FOV I prefer the Rift S.  
I’m not a fan of the way Reverb does the tunnel/valley focus priority sharpness. FOV in the Rift S felt much better to me.

Tracking I would go with the Rift S. WMR tracking can get buggy at times when looking  extreme down and left/right in a cockpit.

For comfort Reverb hands down.

As for performance Reverb needs more hardware firepower because of the high resolution. So if you plan to run XPlane11 prepare to be even more taxed in fps as compared to the Rift S they just seem to run better FPS thanks to the ASW features.
 

Edited by blueshark747

Asus Maximus X Hero Z370/ Windows 10
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23 hours ago, jozeff said:

Hi guys,

 

I'm still very in doubt about buying the Rift S or the reverb......

 

After thinking a bit I am willing to spend some cash on a gtx2080 and a i7 9700k and some high end memory.

I have a rift cv1 right now and looking for some better vr experience.

 

I've been reading so many reviews about defect reverbs that I am very hesitant to spend the cash on it.

The rift s is cheaper and performance will probably be better than the reverb.

 

Also I read some negative things about washed out colors in the reverb and a very small sweet spot.

Coming from a cv1 will a rift s give me the upgrade I've been looking for??

 

Thanks

 

 

Jozeff

 

 

 

 

I had a Rift1, Rift S and now i haver a Reverb.

I'm very happy with that.

My brother received my rift S and tryied my reverb. The next day he ordered a reverb for him.

 

Both of our reverbs are new and we had no problems with any of them. Maybe we were the luckiest? don't know.

 

They have a 15days return policy so you can try it!

 


Miguel Leandro

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