Hi Rob,I'm not Vauchez, of course... I don't even play him on TV ;-). However, it seems to me that he doesn't have too many options available for altering water color on a local level. If you use the SDK methods for creating phototerrain -- which he seems to have done -- then you need to create an alpha mask do indicate areas that are water. This essentially cuts a hole out of your ground, allowing the underlying water to show through. However, it's still the FS water underneath. Of course, you can overlay a semi-transparent texture over that giving it another color, and maybe he has. But at some point the water has to go back to being the stock color where the phototerrain ends. I think it's just as likely that he simply found a good water package for his FS screenshots - or created new global inland water textures for himself - in order get that color. The problem isn't just one of color, either. The water textures also have to have the right amount of reflection (shininess) in order to render realistically. The color of water, much more so than land, is affected by the angle of the light bouncing off its surface. From the ground, the Columbia seems much lighter and even bluer than it does from the air, owing to this reflection. I hope Stephane did find a way to alter the color, whether it's a global change or not. I just wanted to shed a little more light on the matter.thanks,

>Hi Rob,>>I'm not Vauchez, of course... I don't even play him on TV ;-).>However, it seems to me that he doesn't have too many options>available for altering water color on a local level. If you>use the SDK methods for creating phototerrain -- which he>seems to have done -- then you need to create an alpha mask do>indicate areas that are water. This essentially cuts a hole>out of your ground, allowing the underlying water to show>through. However, it's still the FS water underneath. Of>course, you can overlay a semi-transparent texture over that>giving it another color, and maybe he has. But at some point>the water has to go back to being the stock color where the>phototerrain ends. >>I think it's just as likely that he simply found a good water>package for his FS screenshots - or created new global inland>water textures for himself - in order get that color. The>problem isn't just one of color, either. The water textures>also have to have the right amount of reflection (shininess)>in order to render realistically. The color of water, much>more so than land, is affected by the angle of the light>bouncing off its surface. From the ground, the Columbia seems>much lighter and even bluer than it does from the air, owing>to this reflection. I hope Stephane did find a way to alter>the color, whether it's a global change or not. I just wanted>to shed a little more light on the matter.I'm not Vauchez either ( but I did dream that I was... j/k ), but I'm pretty sure he has altered the waterclass in some fashion. Near certain parts of the river banks there are portions of the water that make it appear as if the land is coming up out of the water... it's really amazing the effect he gives it.I can't show any screenshots of this right now, but soon enough you'll see. :)He didn't miss much. ;)EditAfter more thought about the subject, he may have accomplished this by somehow masking the land texture over the water in a semi-transparent fashion? I know very little about scenery design but the effect that is there is quite amazing.End of Edit

Here you can sort of see it, but you can't appreciate it from this angle ( reflection and light just isn't right ).Second picture down in [a href=http://www.flightscenery.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=514]this thread[/a].Right near the airport to the right of that strip of land jetting out nearest the center of the picture.

I wish Bill hadn't mentioned the SDK. I have it in my "Tools" folder along with a number of scenery making programs. I stroll past and they beckon, "C'mon over here big boy. We'll show you a real good time..." I step up my pace,and look the other way. I am married, the kids play soccer, we have a business, raising buffalo and marketing their products. It's a real issue. Time. So when Bill mentions alpha mask, creating global inland water textures, light bouncing, etc., I get this itch, you know? But the look on my daughter's face after she scores... From my desk here, I look east at soaring cliffs (Smith Rock State Park, one of the top rock climbing sites in the country) formed by the Crooked River in Central Oregon. When I fly over our place in FS(yes, I confess, I did use rwy12 to put our house, barns, the kids, etc., and horses in the fields, no buffalo, however), I look over at the "Rock" and see the river flowing uphill over the cliffs and down the other side toward the Deschutes River, I REALLY want to reroute the river into it's proper place, the Crooked River Gorge, which IS RIGHT THERE several hundred feet below the river flowing so ridiculously across the cliffs. (That happened when I added FSG's LOD 10 mesh. Without the mesh, the Rock isn't even there.)Honestly, if I had to choose, I'd rather learn how to move the Crooked River into it's gorge than get the right hue for the Big Rivers. Can that be done? You don't know how long I've wanted to ask that question, but hesitated. Assumed it wasn't possible. Not by a normal human like me (with a whole n'other life apart from FS), in a reasonable time. But if it is, could someone point me in the right direction? Thanks Bill for your reply. Got me goin' here. Rob

YES! I do see it. WOW! OK, I want to learn how to color the big rivers properly AND put Crooked River back in its gorge.And take my wife out to dinner tomorrow night. Not necessarily in that order.Thanks Jeff.Rob

Gimme a lat/lon for the part of the river in question, Rob, and I'll have a peek and render an opinion on what could be done. Sorry for pulling you into in scenery design like that. It was thoughless ;-)

Bill, I gathered the lat/lon info and will PM you with it.If this can actually be done, it will be amazing!I am happy to help in any way I can, or do it all if you explain how. I'm excited.RobLook for PM shortly.

Well said Bill. I have been working with some of the new tools (mostly the modeling sdk and it's exporter for 3DS Max8) and all I can say at this time is yes there will be a big differance just by going to Shader model 2/3. As for DirectX10 once that's been out for a while and the people at ACES can move all the parts of the visual engine over to DX10 as well we will indeed see even better visuals. I have been reading some of the info from the DX10 sdk as well and it will along with a new generation of hardware make a huge differance. People like the above who post and do not know what goes into creating something like FS (or any other complex 3D product) should at the very least go in the net and read a little about what makes it all work before posting! But you see most of the info would be far above the heads of people who make posts like the above. Dan Martin Team Flight Ontario (See I post with my real name!)

Bill, I think I futzed up the PM to you. Here's the info just in case. Sorry administrator.Starting upstream, ~ N44.20.50, W121.0.37, the river should stay in the valley skirting the base of the hill to ~ N44.20.64, W121.58.81. Obvious where it should be. From there, the downstream course of the river (NW generally) is OK for a while.Next, ~N44.20.30, W121.3.86, the river should remain in the valley skirting the base of the plateau instead of over it, obvious where the river should be. Just after the plateau, at ~N44.20.77, W121.4.67 the gorge (eroded river bed) begins. but the FS river leaves the gorge and meanders all over the ridges and hills, etc. The river should stay in the bottom of the gorge all the way to the confluence. The gorge here is shallow but clearly visible. Generally, the FS river is misplaced to the north and east of the gorge. That's also obvious. Follow the gorge downstream, assuming the river was properly placed in itAt ~N44.21.73, W121.8.89, you are directly over what looks like the head of a huge resting dragon (back off a little to the west, then look), lying NE/SW with a deep trench around 3 sides of him. The trench is the gorge. The dragon is Smith Rock. Our place is across the gorge, to the west of the head of the dragon. Not on your screen, but on mine. We are waving to you. The river is all over the place, up over the dragon's back, down in the gorge, back up over Grey Butte.From there, the gorge gets deeper, narrower, more obvious where the river should be, but isn't, at the bottom of the gorge. Even in the deepest part of the gorge, near the confluence, the river is on the wall, not in the bottom. The confluence is at Lake Billy Chinook, ~N44.30.52, W121.14.92. Notice the Deschutes River gorge to the west and south. The Deschutes is also misplaced, out of it's gorge, most of the way.Let me know what I else I can do.Thanks so much for looking into this. I heard/read months ago that someone was working on a Bend area/Three Sisters Wilderness addon (South and West from the area above), but I'm sure it doesn't include the Crooked River/Smith Rock/Billy Chinook areas. Haven't heard anything more about that project recently.Rob Remember, this occurs when using FSG's LOD 10 for this area.

If they can give us that detail and performance at FlightScenery, why cant Microsoft?

With a joke like that, I'd expect at least a smiley! ;-)Think about how long it's taken Vauchez to do this airport and then multiply that by the 23,000 some-odd airports in FS. Then round down, considering that each airport isn't as large as what PDX covers. Heck, round it way down. Let's say 500. Now figure that he's taken well over a year to get where he is now. I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to wait until FS2400 for the next version. Actually, I hear good things about DX358, but I digress...

Hope that's a joke.Common sense is becoming a rarity these days.James

I totally agree. If you try to stuff all the trees(full autogen) I am seeing in a section of forest of FSX in FS9 it would choke and turn into a slideshow. Whereas I get a good 20 fps even in the demo. I would say the engine has been greatly improved.Regards, Carlos

>With a joke like that, I'd expect at least a smiley! ;-)>>Think about how long it's taken Vauchez to do this airport and>then multiply that by the 23,000 some-odd airports in FS. Then>round down, considering that each airport isn't as large as>what PDX covers. Heck, round it way down. Let's say 500. Now>figure that he's taken well over a year to get where he is>now. I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to wait until>FS2400 for the next version. Actually, I hear good things>about DX358, but I digress...>>If it weren't for the personal issues he faced ( which delayed the project heavily ) it would have been out in far less than a year :) But still we all follow your point.. just wanted to clarify. ;)

>>I heard/read months ago that someone was working on a Bend>area/Three Sisters Wilderness addon (South and West from the>area above), but I'm sure it doesn't include the Crooked>River/Smith Rock/Billy Chinook areas. Haven't heard anything>more about that project recently.>>PMFJI, but I took a quick look at your area. I highly recommend getting UT USA which will fix all thoese problems.But, if you don't want to go that route, you can look at some of the USGS vector data for fixing the default stream data. I found hi res data for some of your region, but not all :(. I gave it a quick run-through with no attempt to match up to the default streams at the edges, so expect them to stop / start. But if it is worthwhile to you at all fine.I used the FSG 38m mesh in testing. I also found a private airfield, OR02 in a hole. I adjusted it to the surrounding elevation.scott s..