Too much authority

[EmaRacing 302]

Is there a fix around for the "too much authority" of the control surfaces?
It's very difficult to make smooth movements because at low speeds you get full elevator and ailerons control, which is unrealistic and makes smooth landings more difficult, at least for me.
 

[tweekz 2,165]

In case you didn't do so, in my signature you find a link to the respective issue thread on the official MSFS forum. You can upvote to raise awareness to the devs.

It could be that this is also connected to the inertia problem. Planes are a little too responsive to forces in general. So it might be that the applied control surface forces are actually correct, but the plane reacts excessively to it. Just like with the wind.

As this issue is marked as FIXED for the next update, I am really looking forward to it. It's maybe wishful thinking, but there's a possibility it will be much better with it.

As a temporary workaround it helps to lower the sensitivity, although this is of course not a perfect solution as it results in a exponential response curve.

Edited September 10, 2020 by tweekz

[kerosene31 349]

It is definitely my #1 gripe with the sim right now.  Even turning down the sensitivities, a 172 still handles like a fighter jet.  I'm hoping the developer can fix it for all planes, if not we'll need to wait for 3rd party stuff to hopefully do better.  

+1 vote on this issue on the main site too.  

[EmaRacing 302]

I voted
Yes, I tried lowering sensitivity also with the joystick curves program, it's a little better during normal flight, but low speeds are still a mess, I pull the stick just a little bit for flaring, which is already the opposite of reality, and BAM! it's 25 degrees nose up and CLIMBING...

[devgrp 1,233]

You guys must strong as hell lol. I don't have that problem. You have to be gentle with the controls. I also fly RC model planes with the the pinch technique with no expo and my movements are smooth. 

Remember slow is smooth and smooth is fast! 

[LRBS 948]

In [FLIGHT_TUNING]

for 152 change to

pitch_stability = 2.0  //0.33
roll_stability = 1.5  //0.25
yaw_stability = 1.8  //0.25
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.2

for 208B

pitch_stability = 2.0  //0.25
roll_stability = 2.3  ///0.25
yaw_stability = 2.0  //0.25
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.45  //1.25

I'm working on some others but I would prefer them to correct their mistakes for the time being.

 

 

 

 

 

[L3m0n 56]

I dont think "xxxx_stability" should really be messed with. Its just a multiplier for  "xxxxx_moment_xxxxx_damping"

You should be looking at stuff like "elevator_scaling_table" which is completely empty on some aircraft. On the 152 and 208 it looks like its a constant regardless of angle. Elevator/rudder/aileron effectiveness should fall off with deflection angle and this is one of the biggest issues with stock aircraft. Other tables having sensible values, like yaw_moment_slip_angle_aoa_table also helps a lot.

"empty_weight_xxxx_MOI" should also be recalculated for maybe every aircraft.

[EmaRacing 302]

15 minutes ago, devgrp said:

You guys must strong as hell lol.

This sounds like a typical MS explanation for a bug.

I also fly every rc thing imaginable, never had this problem.

[tweekz 2,165]

2 hours ago, EmaRacing said:

I pull the stick just a little bit for flaring, which is already the opposite of reality, and BAM! it's 25 degrees nose up and CLIMBING...

Yeah, that's horrible. Normally the elevator authority is so low that you can pull quite a bit on the flare. In the DA20 I probably end up 1/2 to 3/4 of full deflection before touching down. If I do that in MSFS I go for the moon.

[LRBS 948]

2 hours ago, L3m0n said:

I dont think "xxxx_stability" should really be messed with. Its just a multiplier for  "xxxxx_moment_xxxxx_damping"

You should be looking at stuff like "elevator_scaling_table" which is completely empty on some aircraft. On the 152 and 208 it looks like its a constant regardless of angle. Elevator/rudder/aileron effectiveness should fall off with deflection angle and this is one of the biggest issues with stock aircraft. Other tables having sensible values, like yaw_moment_slip_angle_aoa_table also helps a lot.

"empty_weight_xxxx_MOI" should also be recalculated for maybe every aircraft.

I agree, I forgot to add changes to the  [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] for 152 and 208. Let me try again.

Under flight model change to "realistic"

Yoke and rudder sensitivities -50 with 1 dead zone for all.

 

 Change values as noted:

C152

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]

empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 775.13   //1717 ; Empty pitch moment of inertia, Jxx (SLUG SQ FEET)
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 644.88   //1388 ; Empty roll moment of inertia, Jzz (SLUG SQ FEET)
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 1160   //2770 ; Empty yaw moment of inertia, Jyy (SLUG SQ FEET)
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 10 ; Empty transverse moment of inertia, Jyz (SLUG SQ FEET)

[FLIGHT_TUNING]

pitch_stability = 2.0  //0.33
roll_stability = 1.5  //0.25
yaw_stability = 1.8  //0.25
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.2

 

C208B

[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight = 8750   //8807; Empty weight, (LBS)
empty_weight = 4750   //5150 ; Empty weight, (LBS)

empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 10197.19   //18262 ; Empty pitch moment of inertia, Jxx (SLUG SQ FEET)
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 6894.89  //18262   //13561 ; Empty roll moment of inertia, Jzz (SLUG SQ FEET)
empty_weight_yaw_MOI = 13569.02   //28012 ; Empty yaw moment of inertia, Jyy (SLUG SQ FEET)
empty_weight_coupled_MOI = 500 ; Empty transverse moment of inertia, Jyz (SLUG SQ FEET)

[FLIGHT_TUNING]

pitch_stability = 2.0  //0.25
roll_stability = 2.3  ///0.25
yaw_stability = 2.0  //0.25
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.45  //1.25

I don't fly small airplanes so it might need to be more adjusted to be closer to reality. I fly super equipment but I have a small C421 that I fly for pleasure in my time off.

The aircraft models need lots of tuning, as  many indicated the airplanes are very unstable and snappy. There is a constant bank left/right and yaw left/right even in no wind conditions. This kind of behavior it's not

realistic by any means. I don't know where they got it, plus that many aircraft data is wrong.

I do really hope that the aircraft developers might be able to overcome these big issues and also I hope that Microsoft/Asobo to optimize this software in respect to GPU and CPU.

I guess will see.

I'm working on the 748I but I don't think that I have the patience to go over each line and correct so many entries.

Happy flying!

 

 

 

 

[tgsweat 144]

I've been flying the TBM exclusively since day one and haven't had a problem once i adjusted the sensitivity.  Last night i decide to hop back in the 172 since the first day, and I now notice just how sensitive the controls are after flying the TBM for a few weeks.  So I wouldn't say its all planes that are super sensitive.  

Edited September 11, 2020 by tgsweat

[LRBS 948]

53 minutes ago, tgsweat said:

haven't had a problem once i adjusted the sensitivity

So I don't understand, did you adjust the sensitivity because it was too sensitive or less sensitive on your PC?

I'm looking at the flight tuning section where we have the same low values on pitch_stability = 0.25, roll_stability = 0.25 and yaw_stability = 0.25, values that make the airplane to be unstable.

I just test flew the airplane and is very unstable without adjusting anything.

I guess I'm missing something here, either you don't adjust anything and then I agree that not all airplanes are super sensitive (even most of the people concur with this issue) or not.  

Anyhow, I do hope that they find a fix and everybody or at least the majority have a positive result to enjoy this hobby as it should. 

[tweekz 2,165]

7 hours ago, tgsweat said:

I've been flying the TBM exclusively since day one and haven't had a problem once i adjusted the sensitivity.  Last night i decide to hop back in the 172 since the first day, and I now notice just how sensitive the controls are after flying the TBM for a few weeks.  So I wouldn't say its all planes that are super sensitive.  

Lowering sensitivity helps, but it doesn't solve the problem. It will give you a exponential response curve, which is unnatural. Linear is what depicts reality (unless you want to simulate more force needed to move the yoke or sth like that).

So the problem might either be dynamic air pressure leading to a too strong control force or lack of inertia not stopping the plane from rotating easily - or both.

Edited September 11, 2020 by tweekz

[Afterburner 374]

Instead of tweaking the stability, isn't it better to tune the sensitivity inside the configuration file?  Here is a thread in the Tips & Tricks section:

And I have recently made a video about it:

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Afterburner

[L3m0n 56]

8 hours ago, killthespam said:

So I don't understand, did you adjust the sensitivity because it was too sensitive or less sensitive on your PC?

I'm looking at the flight tuning section where we have the same low values on pitch_stability = 0.25, roll_stability = 0.25 and yaw_stability = 0.25, values that make the airplane to be unstable.

I just test flew the airplane and is very unstable without adjusting anything.

I guess I'm missing something here, either you don't adjust anything and then I agree that not all airplanes are super sensitive (even most of the people concur with this issue) or not.  

Anyhow, I do hope that they find a fix and everybody or at least the majority have a positive result to enjoy this hobby as it should. 

Again all pitch_stability or roll and yaw do is multiply the roll_moment_roll_damping value, or yaw_moment_yaw_damping, ect. Those values on their own don't make the plane unstable.

Stuff like roll_moment_roll_damping can be matched to the 'new' model values using the legacy tuning dialog with the in-game editor.