3 hours ago, mpo910 said:

This is exactly how I see it. Controllers are also not precisely enough because your hands are "free" and not "resting" or getting "some guided response" like having them on a flightstick or yoke. For me I fly never with controllers. Controllers are a nice gimmick but that´s it.

I do really look forward to the VR release of MSFS. If it is good enough, it could be that I am willing to take the "high level airliners" (high level=not ready yet and very low depth systems) to have the stunning visuals compared to P3D. P3D is getting better and better, but VR is not fluid enough yet.....

Marcus

Of course controllers are not a replacement for a yoke or a joystick, that's obvious. I only use right controller to control everything in the cabin, including throttle, flaps, gear levers etc. while my left hand is controlling the yoke or joystick. Here's my DYI VR setup. It works really well in XPlane. Until hand tracking with haptic feedback (gloves?) is a reality, controllers are the next best thing. With yoke/joystick of course. And there should be both a mouse and a controller support, so there is no problem with choosing whatever you like.

Why would I ever use the controllers??? Mouse is far better option 

I’d take a simple head pointer/cursor over mouse and touch controllers

37 minutes ago, DaWu said:

Why would I ever use the controllers??? Mouse is far better option 

How many real aircraft have a mouse in the cockpit?

Hand tracking is what is really needed.  Like this:

It's too bad that it needs an extra camera stuck to the headset, and its own software package.  There is no reason the Windows Mixed Reality system couldn't support something like this by default using the cameras on the headset.

The price is pretty reasonable though, <$200.

Edited December 22, 20205 yr by marsman2020

Nice. It also needs a vibration feedback and a more ergonomic trigger to be a perfect solution.

On 12/21/2020 at 7:36 PM, DaWu said:

Why would I ever use the controllers??? Mouse is far better option 

So turning a com knob with your mouse do you feel the clicks from the Knob?

On X-Plane using my Index controllers I can. I also do not need a flat surface to put the mouse on because my controllers are on my hands ready to be used.

7 hours ago, sparker256 said:

So turning a com knob with your mouse do you feel the clicks from the Knob?

On X-Plane using my Index controllers I can. I also do not need a flat surface to put the mouse on because my controllers are on my hands ready to be used.

I just tried the controllers in DCS in the F16 cockpit. My experience was bad. Really bad. Never will try that again. Mouse is so much easier and more intuitive

VR without motion control has a name.  It's called partial VR support.  In X-Plane I have the option of using the mouse or a motion controller and I can say that without a doubt, after trying both, using a motion controller is far and away superior.  For control (in X-Plane) I use a Honeycomb yoke, Saitek pedals, and a Knobster mounted on a Wheel Stand Pro as my physical controls, and fasten a single Index controller to my right hand to manipulate all remaining panel controls not mapped to a physical control.  A number of years ago I took flying lessons in a Cessna and it wasn't really until I flew with left hand on the yoke and right hand virtually controlling the throttle that landing felt uncannily like the real thing.  In X-Plane, the motion controller also provides a convenient way to browse menus and drag around application widgets--which, with a mouse, requires you to grope around to find it first.  Right now in MSFS, I've resorted to HOTAS control to minimize immersion breaking mouse usage, and I don't even bother with my superior X-Plane hardware because it just can't be used properly.  I'm pretty sure motion control must be on Asobo's agenda, but as long as folks continue to shout loudly about loving their mouses, I'm sure it can wait.

3 hours ago, DaWu said:

I just tried the controllers in DCS in the F16 cockpit. My experience was bad. Really bad. Never will try that again. Mouse is so much easier and more intuitive

Pretty much everything about DCS VR is badly optimized, so not really a surprise.

3 hours ago, Gildahl said:

VR without motion control has a name.  It's called partial VR support.  In X-Plane I have the option of using the mouse or a motion controller and I can say that without a doubt, after trying both, using a motion controller is far and away superior.  For control (in X-Plane) I use a Honeycomb yoke, Saitek pedals, and a Knobster mounted on a Wheel Stand Pro as my physical controls, and fasten a single Index controller to my right hand to manipulate all remaining panel controls not mapped to a physical control.  A number of years ago I took flying lessons in a Cessna and it wasn't really until I flew with left hand on the yoke and right hand virtually controlling the throttle that landing felt uncannily like the real thing.  In X-Plane, the motion controller also provides a convenient way to browse menus and drag around application widgets--which, with a mouse, requires you to grope around to find it first.  Right now in MSFS, I've resorted to HOTAS control to minimize immersion breaking mouse usage, and I don't even bother with my superior X-Plane hardware because it just can't be used properly.  I'm pretty sure motion control must be on Asobo's agenda, but as long as folks continue to shout loudly about loving their mouses, I'm sure it can wait.

Exactly!!! I used X-Plane the same way - a DIY controller mod to have it strapped to my hand, so I don't have to "hold" it. Very immersive that way, you can see it in my video. Now that I tried VR in MFS with its mouse, I can finally say a real verdict, based on practical use. And it's the following: It's horrible! Just making a mouse pointer understand I want it in a specific interface window is a challenge. Operating knobs and levers is simply torture, compared to controllers (once you got used to them). You can't do anything quickly or precisely enough. I will end up assigning keys to all I can and then assigning VoiceMacro commands to press the keys - even to operate flaps etc. This is going to be faster and more convenient than a mouse. I don't understand how people can like this mouse interface. What are they comparing it to? A blindfolded pinata hunt?

I bet they don't really try the controllers in a good implementation sim more than a few minutes. It takes b it of time to get used to them I guess. And nobody has straps to use them properly in a sim. One you do it right, it's a night and day difference from what we have now in MFS. I really hope Asobo will implement controllers soon. I miss them so much!

The worst thing is that beauty of MFS has really killed the X-Plane for me. I can't enjoy it anymore, it looks too dated. I'm a visual person, a designer. It pains me to see the old graphics, knowing what it could look like...

 

I really appreciate what Asobo has done with the sim but after trying it out via the gamepass when the sim was released I quickly got bored of 2d flying and decided to put it on hold until VR. 

Now with the VR support out I was sad to learn they haven't implemented the motion controller support. They've become such an integral part of my VR flight simming in X-Plane. I just love how after hours and hours in the ToLiss A319 I noticed how the cockpit flows started to go into my muscle memory allowing me to work through the check lists faster and faster.

Asobo: Your first stab at the VR support in MSFS is very promising based on the player feedback but I'm going to wait a bit longer before buying the sim until you implement motion controller support.

I've been pleasantly surprised by the mouse in VR.  Not quite as good as a controller in terms of interaction with buttons etc, but rather better in utility - since my mouse is sitting by my stick anyway, so it's easy to move from one to the other.  It would be good if someone could post a video of how they use Controllers (it's mentioned above that people fasten them to their hands - is it hanging off by a loop or what?) - since maybe I'm missing something obvious.

 

The Valve Index controllers are designed to strap to the hand.  That's the main reason I use the Index (though they can be made to work for G2 as well).  Even with a controller strapped to my right hand, I can still hold and operate switches on the yoke with that hand (though I suppose that might vary for people with small hands).   Now note that in my current setup for MSFS using a HOTAS and mouse, everything does work in a utilitarian sort of way (the mouse is NOT hard to use); but it is just one of those things where once you've used a motion controller, you really don't want to go back since the mouse feels so unnatural in comparison.

To understand why, I remember in the peak of my 2D sim days giving serious thought to building myself a physical cockpit.  Even then, the mouse just felt uninspiring, and the immersion of real switches and controls had enormous appeal.  I had the money, room, and carpentry know-how to do it, but always ended up concluding that the effort and expense probably wasn't worth it because the moment I switched planes, my cockpit would be mismatched.  But then VR came along, and I discovered through VTOL and X-Plane that one didn't need a physical cockpit at all to have a home cockpit.  In VR, there in front of me, I could use all the switches and dials just as if they were real and change planes at a whim.  To use a mouse in that environment just runs contrary to the whole point of why I moved to VR in the first place--i.e. to have a home cockpit.  Yes, the visual immersion is a big factor; but to me, fully half the VR experience is in the interaction piece--that is, in how naturally you control things.  A mouse will get the job done, but so did just a keyboard perfectly well back in FSII.  Would you go back?

Edited December 29, 20205 yr by Gildahl

4 minutes ago, Gildahl said:

  A mouse will get the job done, but so did a keyboard perfectly well back in FSII.  Would you go back?

On the days I spent 2 hours in FSX trying to fix stutters... yup! 🙂 

FSX with Flyinside is still my best VR experience by far