FSX Patch?

[Guest LeeWang]

I will not respond. No need to get this thread locked. Personal attacks don't solve anything.I fell sorry that developers are left in this mess. Cockpit / gauge design is a challenge.Hope I have not offended anyone, sorry If you read my post that way.... Debate is good, personal attacts not good. Enjoy your hobby gentleman. I have to get back to development here..;-)Lee

[Guest JackDanielsDrinker]

Well said. I meant Geofa...

[Guest Ozzie]

>It only went down as a Fiasco to those who choose to view>many things in the world as such.>>Fs2000 was what brought me back to the FS series after not>using it at all in the 1990's-not because I viewed fs95-98>series as a Fiasco but just didn't see that they met my>simming needs at the time.>>I have a lot more things to get worked up in life about than a>$50 piece of entertainment software-right now I am being asked>to fly a dying child cancer patient from her hospital home so>she can die with her family. That is a Fiasco.>>>>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgThen - Might I respectfully suggest that you reach over and turn OFF the computer and go and attend to what is REALLY an important task instead of wasting valuable time here jumping on my headHave a great Flight - I hope all works out well for the poor childs soul

[Geofa 108]

I will be doing just that. But one of my jobs is also moderating this forum and you continually seem to want to push the limits.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Jeff Nielsen 1,400]

Geofa,That's a very nice thing you're doing for that family ultimately even though it may not seem like it right now.** To those who keep saying the community is split are wrong. Even though we're out of the bus. so to speak, we're still involved with the beta and everyone is still working together to get things done. It's just taking some time with both a tech gap and perf gap this time around.You all have both versions to use now as you see fit. Go fly somewhere and enjoy yourselves for a change. And by no means am I trying to minimize that fact that alot of you paid good money for FSX, but ACES is doing everything in their power to get things right, so we at least should recognize that, IMHO.

[Geofa 108]

Hey Jeff-how are you?!Well the mission was scrubbed-because of the time urgency a decision was made to fly this person on a commercial airliner instead. Either way it doesn't make me feel very good knowing what is at stake.I belong to a volunteer organization that flys needy people in private aircraft to get medical help they need. I get quite a few email requests a week just like this-and it wrenches your heart. Interestingly-the people with these dire conditions tend to be the most optimistic positive people you would ever meet!As co moderator of this forum-I get several emails a day with complaints from fellow users "would you please ban user xxxx for being rude and out of line"-"would you lock posting x or eliminate for being out of line" etc.Kind of a weird way to start each day reading the two different sets of emails, threads, and priorities.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Jeff Nielsen 1,400]

Hey Geofa,Still kicking just trying to make the day. You part of Angel Flight? I thought they used jets and turbo-p's mostly.Yeah, sometimes hard trying to mentally switch gears..lol. Sometimes it's best to try and stay out of the forums when the posts get long because it just becomes people trying to convince other people at that point. Funny thing is that most points are valid and we just argue about the same thing..heh.:-) Catch ya around sometime if you're down near KMCI or KMKC.

[Geofa 108]

Wings of Mercy-similar deal.Take it easy!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[Guest MauiHawk]

>My own conclusions:>>The patch and localizations is(are?) in QA. Things look>positive as of now- subject to change.>>It'll be released when it's ready, likely March.I'm not sure I agree with these conclusions. Above Phil said that although it was getting "late" they were still looking at incoming issues. That says to me pretty definitively that it is not yet in QA. I think Phil mentioned March because that is when he promised his next update on SP progress. Reading between the lines (maybe a little too deeply), my own guess is that he thinks by the time he gives us that update, they'll have wrapped up their planned fixes and might be able to give us a little more detail at that time. But if that's the case, he mentioned at least several weeks for QA and possibly a security issue that could drag out the release further, so my guess is early April optimistically.

[Guest Hocking]

I am starting to have some real doubts about this whole FSX/DX10/Vista thing. I am not trying to start a big fight here, I am just putting my thoughts out there to see who all agrees and who doesn't. I was planning on building my first computer (I have always bought Gaming PC's before), but now I am not too sure if I am going to do anything. I am not a hater, but I am just making a few general observations about the current PC market situtation. First, lets consider FSX. This FSX thing is a complete disaster at this point (why, why, why did they release this game when they did), and has done nothing but damage our Flight Simulation Community to include all Add-On Developers. It just seems as if we are not going to have a DX10 capable FSX until very late this year or early next year. Worst than this, the gaming industry as a whole is not really migrating to DX10 anytime soon. I know there are a few games here and there, but not many are coming out this year anyway. As far as Vista is concerned, I get sleepy just thinking about it. It is a complete "Yawner" so far, and people are not rushing to upgrade right now at all. Any review you read about it wonders why in the world would you release this Operating System that doesn't really improve anything on your system other than the new "Aero" graphics. Furthermore, why price this new OS at $400 (for the Ultimate Version). And to make matters worst, Microsoft has already announced work starting on their next new Operating System that should be ready in a couple of years (maybe 2 years). Vista is shaping up to be another "Windows ME" experience, and DX10 isn't not being embraced by game developers. The PC industry, who had stocked up on all kinds of components, are talking about how they aren't selling Vista Computers anywhere near what they thought they would sell. Microsoft has also grossly over-estimated what was going to happen to their earnings after Vista is released.Putting all this together, it appears as if it is best to just stick with Windows XP, and not even consider upgrading to Vista until a year from now if at all. I guess I am starting to think I may skip this entire OS until Microsoft comes out with the next one in two years or so. In doing this, I will be forced to stay with FS9, but that doesn't really matter anyway. Nobody is getting to play FSX the way we thought we would be able to play it anyway. And you can pretty much expect that Add-On developers (the people who really make the Flight Simulator more realistic) are going to wait for the development of FSX to be complete before they start putting realistic Add-Ons together, and this won't be until 2008 sometime.Am I wrong for thinking this way? Are many of you starting to have these thoughts? Again, I am not a hater. I am just paying attention to what is going on the marketplace, and this is what I am finding.

[Guest MauiHawk]

hmmm... I take it you weren't really replying to my post specifically? But since you latched on to me...I don't agree with your assement of DX10 uptake. Anytime new features are added to a graphics API, it takes some time to see it adopted in games. For example, if I'm not mistaken, it also took some time from when Nvidia introduced support for Shader Model 3.0 to the time the first game actually supported it. I think this is largely due to the fact that its hard for game developers to test code for new APIs without hardware to run it... and probably even more likely, that at an earlier development stage they can't play with the new features to design effective and efficient effects to use the new features for. So my guess is many outfits don't really even get started on implementation of new APIs until they have hardware that supports it in their hands.Anyway, 2 of the bigger recent games (Company of Heros and Supreme Commander) both are rumored to be introducing DX10 support next month. Additionally, DX10 plans have been announced for Crysis, UT3, Shadowrun, Eve Online, Alan Wake, Hellgate: London, World in Conflict, Warhound, Bioshock and Age of Conan. (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=77741) That's a fair-sized list for this stage, I think.My biggest disappointment with DX10 uptake is FSX specifically. It seems there must have been a certain deal of miscommunication on the subject of DX10 as it related to FSX between M$'s marketing dept and ACES. It was heavily implied that FSX was designed around DX10, that it would support it as soon as FSX was released, and that FSX would be used as the initial showcase for DX10. I also realize that the performance issues with FSX is not something ACES or M$ was planning around, so the SP undoubtedly muddled plans, but to have DX10 support for FSX be as far out as it is right now is an embarrasment for M$, IMHO. (however valid the reasons for the delay may be)About the Vista thing, I agree. I was one of many who felt DX10 was being limited to Vista purely to try to provide some meaningful differentiation for Vista that was otherwise missing. I do somewhat accept Phil's explanation for not providing DX10 support for Vista a while back, but I also think there is certainly some level where the use of DX10 to sell Vista was considered when deciding not to implement DX10 for XP.

[cat 2]

I'm waiting 6 months, buying new good computer withVista installed, then installing FSX. Then installingonly FSX proven addons.I'll keep my current computer, with XP & FS9 as a back-up.Peter Sydney Australia

[FTD1949 0]

>I am starting to have some real doubts about this whole>FSX/DX10/Vista thing. I am not trying to start a big fight>here, I am just putting my thoughts out there to see who all>agrees and who doesn't. I was planning on building my first>computer (I have always bought Gaming PC's before), but now I>am not too sure if I am going to do anything. I am not a>hater, but I am just making a few general observations about>the current PC market situtation. >>First, lets consider FSX. This FSX thing is a complete>disaster at this point (why, why, why did they release this>game when they did), and has done nothing but damage our>Flight Simulation Community to include all Add-On Developers. >It just seems as if we are not going to have a DX10 capable>FSX until very late this year or early next year. Worst than>this, the gaming industry as a whole is not really migrating>to DX10 anytime soon. I know there are a few games here and>there, but not many are coming out this year anyway. >>As far as Vista is concerned, I get sleepy just thinking about>it. It is a complete "Yawner" so far, and people are not>rushing to upgrade right now at all. Any review you read>about it wonders why in the world would you release this>Operating System that doesn't really improve anything on your>system other than the new "Aero" graphics. Furthermore, why>price this new OS at $400 (for the Ultimate Version). And to>make matters worst, Microsoft has already announced work>starting on their next new Operating System that should be>ready in a couple of years (maybe 2 years). Vista is shaping>up to be another "Windows ME" experience, and DX10 isn't not>being embraced by game developers. The PC industry, who had>stocked up on all kinds of components, are talking about how>they aren't selling Vista Computers anywhere near what they>thought they would sell. Microsoft has also grossly>over-estimated what was going to happen to their earnings>after Vista is released.>>Putting all this together, it appears as if it is best to just>stick with Windows XP, and not even consider upgrading to>Vista until a year from now if at all. I guess I am starting>to think I may skip this entire OS until Microsoft comes out>with the next one in two years or so. In doing this, I will>be forced to stay with FS9, but that doesn't really matter>anyway. Nobody is getting to play FSX the way we thought we>would be able to play it anyway. And you can pretty much>expect that Add-On developers (the people who really make the>Flight Simulator more realistic) are going to wait for the>development of FSX to be complete before they start putting>realistic Add-Ons together, and this won't be until 2008>sometime.>>Am I wrong for thinking this way? Are many of you starting to>have these thoughts? Again, I am not a hater. I am just>paying attention to what is going on the marketplace, and this>is what I am finding. You asked for an answer so here it is:I've been using MSFS since it's inception on computers I now tend to forget.If it wasn't for gamers I don't think you would see hardware grow as fast as it has.At any rate; FSX is not a disaster as you imply. It runs fine on somemachines and not so great on others even though they may have almost identical machines.Everyone has a different opinion of how a game or sim should run, for some it's framerates and others fluidity....all a matter of subjectiywith no objective proof.I myself look for any reason to obtain the latest and greatest hardware. I certainly don't need it to type this or to send e-mail.So.....if your happy with FS9 thats great....but don't tell the worldthat FSX is a disaster just because you're not happy with it.By the way I have both on my machine and I can tell you (subjectivley)that FSX is hands down better in all respects after have switched backand forth between them.I haven't ever been ahead of the hardware curve. Always 1 1/2 - 2years behind so I'm always playing catch up with FS. Nothing has changed. FS is always ahead of the hardware curve and I think it'sgreat.Craig

[Guest Hocking]

I realize that eventually, many developers will move over to DX10. But, that is way in the future, and many of those games you mentioned probably won't make it onto the shelf until next year (we know we can't trust their current release dates for later this year). For the most part, DX10 is getting a cold shoulder from the gaming industry at the moment. Game developers also are taking note how Vista is not the big hit that everyone thought it would be, so there is no reason to get in a hurry to start on DX10 games. Taking this all into account, there is absolutely no reason for a gamer to consider upgrading to a Vista/DX10 computer until very late this year at the earliest, or waiting until sometime in 2008. I think MS's thought they would attract more people to Vista by tying DX10 to it, but instead they are driving people away from DX10 because it is tied to Vista that most people can easily do without. I guess the only game I was really waiting on that is going to be a DX10 game is FSX. Lets face it, their marketing department flat out lied about FSX being DX10 compatible (after a simple update patch is released when Vista is released), and optimized to run with DX10. I am very tempted to return my game at this point to protest such poor treatment of paying customers. I know good and well that I will buy the game again in the future after they finish developing the game, but I will not pay $70 with today's dollars to have a game sitting on my shelf that won't be ready to be played until 2008 sometime. This type of behavior simply cannot be tolerated.Folks, this is the kind of stuff that will drive people away from PC gaming and towards console gaming, or no gaming at all. Similar to what happened to Atari when very poor quality games were released for their gaming machine, it completely drove their game machine completely out of the business. Any game that is released in such poor condition does nothing but give the entire PC gaming industry a black eye. FSX will be a great game someday I am sure, but what they released for FSX at this point is completely unacceptable.

[Guest MauiHawk]

> For the most part, DX10 is getting a cold shoulder from the gaming> industry at the moment. Again, I disagree... you aren't really providing anything to back up your point. Link? The only developer I have seen make negative remarks toward DX10 was John Carmack... and it appears he was mostly just frustrated with the fact that it was tied to Vista and not available for XP.I wonder if the problem is your expectations. I challenge you to show me a new 3D API or new version of one that had instant and widespread use in games at the time of its release. You are right that it will take time for DX10 to become supported in most games and for it to be used at its fullest potential. But I don't think that's because DX10 is getting a "cold shoulder"; rather it simply takes time for developers to find ways to use new APIs to their fullest potential. The games that are being released now were very deep in the development cycle by the time DX10 hardware became available (and who knows what kind of drivers they had to work with when it did). So if you were expecting dozens of DX10 titles to be available on Jan 30, or in the first half of the year even, then the problem is simply your expectations not cold shoulders from developers.> Game developers also are taking note how Vista is not the big hit> that everyone thought it would be, so there is no reason to> get in a hurry to start on DX10 games. I think you right that if Vista's sales continue to lag, that may affect somewhat the motivation of developers to get DX10 support out quickly.> Taking this all into account, there is absolutely no reason for> a gamer to consider upgrading to a Vista/DX10 computer until> very late this year at the earliest, or waiting until sometime> in 2008. This may be true for most people. But, again, if you assumed it was going to be necessary for all gamers to dive into Vista/DX10 right away, I think the "problem" has more to do with your expectations. > I guess the only game I was really waiting on that is going to> be a DX10 game is FSX. Well, then DX10 definetly isn't for you right now. But Supreme Commander, which is promising DX10 support next month, has plenty of people interested (it's the current bestselling PC game: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12850). Company of Heroes also has a lot of fans (myself included). So for *some* people, DX10 may offer advantages much earlier than next year.As far as your discontent with FSX specifically, take it back, then. That's your choice.