Dear friends,

I recognize the quality of the product and I've already told that to Chris but I'm having a lot of problems with arliners especially with X-Plane 11 like Rotate MD-80, iXeg 733, FF 757/767 and iniBuilds A300.

I could say the same about P3Dv5 but thanks to FSUIPC I managed to make it more or less acceptable through various sensitivity settings and curves with PMDG 737,747 and 777, Maddog X and QW 787.
BUT without the FSUIPC and using the settings recommended by the PMDG it is almost impossible to fly, it is extremely "heavy" in Pitch and Roll. It reminds me my old times flying the B-737-200 (33 years ago) and doing the "Manual Reversion" training in simulator (maneuver simulating the entire hydraulic system failure) 🙂

I don´t see this problem with GA aircraft, the sensibility settings in P3D and XP-11 are enough to adjust properly. Now I understand why all the videos on youtube about the Fulcrum yoke are with GA aircraft (Cessnas, Arrows, etc.)

I would like to ask the Forum colleagues if it is possible to set up more accurate X-Plane sensibility and curves (as in FSUIPC) or other app in such a way as to minimize this situation. I tried all the options in XP like "Fully linear", "Catmull", "Cubic" without success...

I spent a lot of money on the afore mentioned planes and not flying them on XP11 is regrettable.

By the way, I didn't mention the FSLabs (P3D) and the ToLiss and FF A320 (XP-11) because I use the TCA Sidestick on these planes.

I thank you in advance for any input.

Best regard,

Hamilton Müller
 

19 minutes ago, Hamilton_ said:

especially with X-Plane 11 like Rotate MD-80, iXeg 733, FF 757/767 and iniBuilds A300.

Hi Hamilton

I don't actually have any of those in Xplane, do you see these problems with the standard or zibo 737?

By the way, the videos just happen to show GA aircraft but it is also used by many other real world airliner pilots too. Lets see if we can't work out what the issue might be.

Chris

Edited June 24, 20214 yr by tutmeister

2 minutes ago, tutmeister said:

I don't actually have any of those in Xplane, do you see these problems with the standard or zibo 737?

Hi Chris,

With Zibo not as much as Rotate MD-80, iXeg 733, FF 757/767 and iniBuilds A300, but yes, it´s very heavy too.

Thanks,

Hamilton

As someone who has had the yoke for 8 months I’m entirely happy with it flying a 737-800 and Concorde in P3D v3 and v5 as well as smaller aircraft. I don’t own XP.

I don’t have any sensitivity settings. I just set things up with FSUIPC and use elevator trim as and when required. Maybe the OP is not trimming to relieve the pressure.

@Hamilton_, what control did you use before buying the Fulcrum? If it’s a joystick there’s a huge difference in distance to move the yoke and strength required. You’re comparing a joystick that moves a couple of inches to a yoke that has 8” of pitch travel. It takes some adjustment.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Maybe the OP is not trimming to relieve the pressure.

I´m the OP and I´m an airline pilot for 33 years, simming since 1995 and I was Beta tester of two major FSim companies.

The control I was using before the Fulcrum is a Thrustaster Warthog stick with Virpil base and I also have the TCA Airbus stick (as I also said in my first post). The last yoke I had was an A.F.C.S  AETI .

"You’re comparing a joystick that moves a couple of inches to a yoke that has 8” of pitch travel."

I did not compare with any yoke or joystick in any of my posts, I said that using the settings recommended the behavior is unrealistic heavy in pitch and roll.

 

My understanding is the force required to move the Fulcrum yoke ( which I have ) through its full range in pitch or roll is fixed by its physical construction -- I don't see any way to change that through software. So if you want to take advantage of the full 8" of pitch travel the Fulcrum offers, you are going to have to exert the necessary force. Same idea for roll. What can be changed with software is how much physical deflection of the Fulcrum yoke is required to get a given response from the aircraft in the sim. So, as an extreme example, if you can get full deflection of the the yoke in the sim with only half full deflection of the Fulcrum yoke, then less total physical force will be required to move the sim a/c yoke through its full range of motion. If the relation between the Fulcrum position and the position of the yoke in the sim is one to one, then you can't avoid the forces required at the extremes. Trimming does not change the force required for a given physical position of the Fulcrum yoke, but rather trim can help eliminate needing to move the yoke to its more extreme positions thereby reducing the required forces.

So if as the OP says, he finds the forces required to use the Fulcrum with GA aircraft is generally OK, but that's not the case with airliners, then I conclude he can set up the sim GA software so extreme deflection of the Fulcrum yoke is not required to get the desired in- sim deflections for GA aircraft, but that is not the case for some airliners.

I agree the Fulcrum yoke requires a significant amount of force at full deflections. It would be useful if there was a user accessible adjustment for the max forces required.

Al

 

Edited June 25, 20214 yr by ark

2 hours ago, ark said:

I agree the Fulcrum yoke requires a significant amount of force at full deflections. It would be useful if there was a user accessible adjustment for the max forces required.

This is a goal that's practically impossible to achieve with the mechanical design of any non- force feedback yoke. As for the force feedback ones- you can get practically any loading charcteristics on both axes there, but at a totally different price point.

6 hours ago, Hamilton_ said:

I´m the OP and I´m an airline pilot for 33 years, simming since 1995 and I was Beta tester of two major FSim companies.

The control I was using before the Fulcrum is a Thrustaster Warthog stick with Virpil base and I also have the TCA Airbus stick (as I also said in my first post). The last yoke I had was an A.F.C.S  AETI .

Given you’re a former real world pilot I would have thought you’d take to the Fulcrum like a duck to water. Having read a review of the AFCS AETI it’s made by PFC and has a similar box shape to the Fulcrum. So I’m perplexed why you’re struggling with it especially with the PMDG737 which has a very good flight model.

“BUT without the FSUIPC and using the settings recommended by the PMDG it is almost impossible to fly, it is extremely "heavy" in Pitch and Roll.”

I’ve never followed their advice. They seem to have issues about FSUIPC and don’t recommend its use. Try disabling controllers in P3D and set everything up using FSUIPC assuming you have a paid version.

I don’t take any special action to calibrate my yoke. Just pull, push and turn to its extremes and make sure FSUIPC registers those movements.

17 hours ago, Hamilton_ said:

using the settings recommended by the PMDG

Hi Hamilton,

If you want we can continue this discussion via email [email protected]. Equally you can post here, I really don't mind.

Can you link to, or quote what the settings are that they recommend please? Also would it be possible to see a screenshot of your settings curves in the various sims and/or fsuipc?

While the springs are strong at the ends of travel they are fairly light around the middle and I'm surprised that you need to have the yoke out at the ends of travel for normal flight. This suggests some issue with settings. I'm doing some testing with the zibo later, is there one of those aircraft or sim that is worse than others?

Chris

1 minute ago, tutmeister said:

If you want we can continue this discussion via email [email protected].

Thanks Chris, I´ll send you via email.

Hamilton

6 hours ago, SergeyPe said:

This is a goal that's practically impossible to achieve with the mechanical design of any non- force feedback yoke.

I'm not so sure about that. Conceptually, I can envision a yoke coming with two sets of interchangeable springs or bungee cords -- "heavy and light". Or perhaps the yoke would have alternative attachment points for the springs or bungee cords so they would be stretched "more or less" at maximum deflection thus changing the maximum force required. However, I certainly have not investigated the feasibility of these ideas and agree such schemes would present additional challenges for the developer.

Having said all this, I find the Fulcrum yoke to be a significant improvement over my old Saitek yoke, and I am a satisfied customer.

Al

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

So I’m perplexed why you’re struggling with it especially with the PMDG737 which has a very good flight model.

Try disabling controllers in P3D and set everything up using FSUIPC assuming you have a paid version.

Ray , maybe I couldn't make myself understood in my first post (English is not my native language) or you missed the point in my first post, so I´ll quote myself:

"but thanks to FSUIPC I managed to make it acceptable" .    So YES, I meant that I used FSUIPC, and I know that PMDG has a very good flight model, not only the 737.

So I manage to use PMDG disabling my controllers and set everything in my FSUIPC paid version, just like you said you did it; and again quoting myself:

"BUT without the FSUIPC and using the settings recommended by the PMDG it is almost impossible to fly, it is extremely "heavy" in Pitch and Roll."

The problem I exposed here to the Forum colleagues, is that in X-Plane we don't have FSUIPC and I'm having problems getting the same result I got with FSUIPC in X-Plane by "tweaking"  the options and curves like "Fully linear", "Catmull", "Cubic" with the XP-11 options.

30 minutes ago, tutmeister said:

I'm surprised that you need to have the yoke out at the ends of travel for normal flight. This suggests some issue with settings. I'm doing some testing with the zibo later, is there one of those aircraft or sim that is worse than others?

Hi Chris,

Sorry , I ended up not answering the second part of your post, well again I guess I couldn't make myself understood, it's hard sometimes to express an idea outside your native language.

I did not need to have the yoke out at the ends of travel, I meant about the "feeling", even using just a few inches of its travel it seems "heavy" , which in the case of P3D is attenuated using FSUIPC to mimic the "real feeling".

By the way I contacted the X-Plane support and I got some instructions about creating a curve, etc. I´ll try that when I get home later.

Thanks,

Hamilton

1 hour ago, Hamilton_ said:

The problem I exposed here to the Forum colleagues, is that in X-Plane we don't have FSUIPC and I'm having problems getting the same result I got with FSUIPC in X-Plane by "tweaking"  the options and curves like "Fully linear", "Catmull", "Cubic" with the XP-11 options.

Sorry for misunderstanding you earlier. My fault, not yours.

There is an equivalent FSUIPC for X-Plane. XPUIPC is available here. Maybe that will help with the XP problems.

https://www.schiratti.com/xpuipc.html

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There is an equivalent FSUIPC for X-Plane. XPUIPC is available here. Maybe that will help with the XP problems.  https://www.schiratti.com/xpuipc.html

Thanks Ray. Yes I have XPUIPC, but as far I know XPUIPC has no GUI interface for configuring it like FSUIPC, but I´ll take a close look.

Btw, as I said to Chris above, I´m in contact with X-Plane support and I got some instructions about creating/improving a curve, etc. and I´ll try that later. 👍