Question for real life pilots about fs2020

[vp49p3 216]

Trimmed ok-but flying through turbulence is exhausting.

[vp49p3 216]

35 minutes ago, 177B said:

When you hand fly a GA aircraft like a 172, trim is everything. You trim for takeoff, climb, cruise, decent and landing. The pressure on the yoke is so light that I often make a point of just using 2 fingers lightly. When you change flap setting you trim away any pressure etc.

Unless you are just out stirring oil, I always tried to fly my planes a minimum of 1 hr a week, to keep them running well. So you end up going out and sight seeing quite a bit as an owner. And sight seeing I tend to just hand fly, but even then trim is the key.

When you actually take a trip, typically you hand fly the T/O to 1000' or so then switch on the AP, and spend you time communicating and navigating as well as scanning for traffic when not in the clouds. I always fly the last 1000' before landing as well on an instrument approach. And I always hand fly the last 5 miles into the pattern and the pattern when VFR.

But your eyes need to be outside most of the time, so trim is how you keep your altitude. Now if you go out and do aerobatics you will become exhausted pretty quickly. 

Precisely.  If I don't trim correctly, it's like wrestling a bear, which I presume is more like real flying.

[amahran 47]

This is a tough one to answer…I’ve been in multi-dozen-thousand dollar Flight Training Devices, but nothing is a substitute for the real thing. It’s always hard to pitch a plane properly in a sim because you fly by the seat of your pants more than you think. 
 

You can experience g loading in real life that signals you intrinsically where to stop pitching, and you have the gift of peripheral vision to help you. The sim doesn’t have any of that, and flight training devices are the same. 

[Chock 17,769]

7 hours ago, orchestra_nl said:

I've been told that many flight instructors notice quickly which of their new students have been flight simming: Those who have not mainly look out of the windscreen while those who have been simming seem to have their eyes glued to the instruments.

MSFS is the first flight simulator have flown that actually entices me to look out of the windscreen at least as much as at the instruments.

This is very true, just like car driving instructors can tell a motorcyclist by observing them all insisting on looking over their shoulder in addition to using the mirrors when pulling out or turning! And yes, I still do that in my car lol, but having once been really shouted at my a flight instructor for daring to go into a turn without looking over in the direction I intended to turn first, I never do that in my flight sim! so if you ever intend to take your sim flying into the real world, then I recommend getting into the habit of looking where you are going so that it engenders a good habit.

In the past you could hardly blame sim pilots for doing that however, because there was not enough feedback to impart the feeling of flight, so you kind of had to look at the instruments much more, in order to convince you that you were flying, or at least simulating flying. Now it's also true that this is still somewhat the case, since unless you have a moving motion platform, force feedback controls, and/or VR and perhaps the smell of fuel and such (and even then it won't be perfect) your brain is not going to be fooled, but in spite of this, MSFS does manage more to convince you than most flight sims, because of its visuals and its flight modeling too, so it is notable for that.

It's worth bearing in mind however that it has been, and probably always will be harder to land in a desktop PC sim than it is in the real thing, since it is every aspect of the real thing which makes it easier, from the feel of the controls and the movement of the aeroplane, to the movement in your peripheral vision, the airspeed noise, the turbulence on the elevator which you feel through the stick and know when you are near the stall, etc, etc. You probably know this yourself if you drive a car and then you have a go at a PC racing game; in your car, you don't even think about how much you turn the wheel, you just kind of feel your way around a turn, whereas in that PC car racing game, you have to concentrate much more on the act of moving the controls in order to steer. It's the same in an aeroplane in real life as opposed to in a sim.

The advantage for people who fly for real, or have flown for real, is that they can kind of 'mentally fill in the gaps' with those things based on the visuals and the way the thing moves about on the air in the sim, and MSFS is, generally speaking, much better at that than any other mainstream PC flight sim in allowing you to do that. It's not perfect of course, but I think it is fair to say that it is the best PC-based flight sim there is in terms of flight model and visuals in regards to managing to do a convincing job of making you feel like you are, if not really there, then at least experiencing a reasonable facsimile of really being there.

You only have to take the Just Flight Piper Arrow up in MSFS, and then do the same in FSX/P3D to notice the difference; the older sims are considerably more 'on rails' than MSFS, and it's very apparent if you do this with the 'same aeroplane' in both sims. MSFS still has a lot of catching up to do in terms of all the technical infrastructure other sims enjoy for having been around a long time and having a ton of cool add-on stuff, but this is just a matter of patience, it will catch up in this regard, and then there will be no doubt at all that it is the best option, but for many, and noticeably a lot of real-world flyers, it already is.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Chock

[amahran 47]

This is a tough one to answer…I’ve been in multi-dozen-thousand dollar Flight Training Devices, but nothing is a substitute for the real thing. It’s always hard to pitch a plane properly in a sim because you fly by the seat of your pants more than you think. 
 

You can experience g loading in real life that signals you intrinsically where to stop pitching, and you have the gift of peripheral vision to help you. The sim doesn’t have any of that, and flight training devices are the same. 

[DavidP 1,410]

4 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Ha-ha, I was the same.  My instructor was constantly telling me to look out the window!   It is just so cool seeing real instruments!

When my student pilots do that too much I pull out "Mr Octopus" - cut outs from rubber bath mat material with those suction caps on one side. I cover most of the instruments and they have to look out the window. You'd be amazed at how their flying improves.

[Janov 2,383]

22 minutes ago, DavidP said:

You'd be amazed at how their flying improves.

And you´d be amazed at how their flying gets worse if you paint over the windows of a non-IFR rated pilot 😆.

Like this guys´:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_Jr._plane_crash

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Janov

[Flyfaster_MTN002 412]

39 minutes ago, Janov said:

And you´d be amazed at how their flying gets worse if you paint over the windows of a non-IFR rated pilot 😆.

Like this guys´:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_Jr._plane_crash

 

VFR days kill IFR pilots.... 🙂

[Flyfaster_MTN002 412]

14 hours ago, ar_0 said:

I haven't flown in a few months and returned recently. I seem to remember that planes flew very differently than the current state of the game. It was much harder to land and control planes. Sure there have been many patches.

I am no pilot myself. My question is this: which is more realistic, the current state of the sim, or the way it was when released if you remember?

The sim is more realistic now with the WT mods and enhancements/refinements to the turbo prop modeling etc. The clouds were stunning when released and now back to that after some issues.

[ar_0 3]

8 hours ago, tweekz said:

The way they handle now - 100%.

They were far too twitchy on release. You needed more dexterity to land the plane in MSFS than IRL. It's still a bit too floaty, but OK.

My question was exactly about this. I wanted to know if the twichyness resembled the real thing more accurately. 

Thank you!

5 hours ago, amahran said:

This is a tough one to answer…I’ve been in multi-dozen-thousand dollar Flight Training Devices, but nothing is a substitute for the real thing. It’s always hard to pitch a plane properly in a sim because you fly by the seat of your pants more than you think. 
 

You can experience g loading in real life that signals you intrinsically where to stop pitching, and you have the gift of peripheral vision to help you. The sim doesn’t have any of that, and flight training devices are the same. 

You have a point. Thanks.

[ar_0 3]

3 hours ago, Flyfaster_MTN002 said:

The sim is more realistic now with the WT mods and enhancements/refinements to the turbo prop modeling etc. The clouds were stunning when released and now back to that after some issues.

Good to know. I was thinking that, because landing feels easier now, it's not realistic.

Thank you.

[fppilot 4,371]

20 hours ago, ar_0 said:

I am no pilot myself. My question is this: which is more realistic, the current state of the sim, or the way it was when released if you remember?

No reason not to try it out.  And my best suggestion is that you visit a local regional airport and get acquainted with local general aviation pilots.  Express your interest and you may gain an invitation to ride along on a flight.  There have been a multitude of responses to you at the time of this response, but actually being in the air just cannot be replaced or duplicated.  You will find the true answer.

[rtodepart 761]

as a real world pilot my short and sweet answer is : its good enough to get you in the right track as far as training goes given that you are configured with the right hardware . go to your local FS and get a demo flight , thats what real world  feels like . 

Edited July 6, 2021 by rtodepart

[ar_0 3]

59 minutes ago, fppilot said:

No reason not to try it out.  And my best suggestion is that you visit a local regional airport and get acquainted with local general aviation pilots.  Express your interest and you may gain an invitation to ride along on a flight.  There have been a multitude of responses to you at the time of this response, but actually being in the air just cannot be replaced or duplicated.  You will find the true answer.

Very true. And actually, one of my dreams. Hopefully soon. Thanks 🙂

15 minutes ago, rtodepart said:

as a real world pilot my short and sweet answer is : its good enough to get you in the right track as far as training goes given that you are configured with the right hardware . go to your local FS and get a demo flight , thats what real world  feels like . 

That what I wanted to know, that's it is good enough, or at least can be with the right hardware.

I'll try to get a demo flight at nearest simulator. I don't know why I haven't thought of that.

Thanks.

[DavidP 1,410]

7 hours ago, Janov said:

And you´d be amazed at how their flying gets worse if you paint over the windows of a non-IFR rated pilot 😆.

Usually 178 seconds I believe!