If you see RL pilots here than sim must be not that bad! 🙂

1 hour ago, ryanbatcund said:

It's easier to fly in real life than the sim imo (speaking of light single GA)

I agree with you as long as you fly with a flat screen. But once you switch to VR, flying (and particularly landing!) is as easy as in RW flying.

For me (around 700 h RW flying) there is not very much difference between P3D, XP11 and MSFS regarding GA aircraft. Good addon aircraft fly quite realistically in all three sims.

2 hours ago, orchestra_nl said:

IMO not even real world pilots can give you a complete answer to that. They can only tell you about the aircraft they have flown (recently) for real themselves.

A while ago I came across a discussion on the internet (perhaps even these fora) where someone was complaining that the Cessna (152/172)? was too easy to fly, "as on rails". There was a reply from a (supposedly) real world pilot who told him that that is exactly how he would describe how the real aircraft flies.

 

When I see the phrase 'as on rails', I feel it more describes the dead atmosphere, rather than flight model, in sims like P3D, FSX and to a lesser degree MSFS.  In calm weather, a real aircraft will feel like it is 'on rails'  yet will dance around if the weather is more choppy.  In simulators, the aircraft will be 'on rails' despite the weather.  MSFS is a little more alive in this regard, but nowhere near as alive as X Plane.

2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

MSFS 2020  is the closest thing to flying in real life, that I have ever had on a PC and I have tried all the sims except DCS. I have about 600 hours in real life flying . 

Where do you fly in real life?  MSFS 2020 has an atmosphere more alive than FSX or P3D, but still has a way to go to be level with X Plane.  From discussions on the atmospheric and flight modelling of MSFS, we can expect the flying experience to improve in that simulator, but as yet it can't compete with X Plane.

11 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

Where do you fly in real life?  MSFS 2020 has an atmosphere more alive than FSX or P3D, but still has a way to go to be level with X Plane.  From discussions on the atmospheric and flight modelling of MSFS, we can expect the flying experience to improve in that simulator, but as yet it can't compete with X Plane.

If MSFS couldn’t compete with X-plane we wound’t be here ! Lol I personally switched from XP to MSFS 🙂

7 hours ago, ar_0 said:

My question is this: which is more realistic, the current state of the sim, or the way it was when released if you remember?

For sure the current state, although I think it’s aircraft specific. The C172 handles much more realistically now than it did before, as does the A320 neo as far as I can tell. The airplanes feel less squirmy / light in the wind than before.

7 minutes ago, FlyingInACessna said:

For sure the current state, although I think it’s aircraft specific. The C172 handles much more realistically now than it did before, as does the A320 neo as far as I can tell. The airplanes feel less squirmy / light in the wind than before.

Thanks 🙂

3 hours ago, fakeflyer737 said:

100% agree with that.

Especially when there is some sort x wind factor. I cant keep my nose straight down the rwy in a 10kt x wind even with pretty high end hardware, its very very annoying. 

2000+ hrs owning/flying IRL

It's common and perfectly correct flying technique IRL to fly the landing final approach in a crab, allowing the airplane to weathervane into the wind as it wants to do.  The nose doesn't HAVE to be pointed at the runway down final; it's easy to hold a straight line ground track to the runway with the nose crabbed into the wind.  Try that and just kick the airplane straight in the flare.  I used to let my airplanes do that all the time in challenging crosswinds.

4 minutes ago, elcaro said:

2000+ hrs owning/flying IRL

It's common and perfectly correct flying technique IRL to fly the landing final approach in a crab, allowing the airplane to weathervane into the wind as it wants to do.  The nose doesn't HAVE to be pointed at the runway down final; it's easy to hold a straight line ground track to the runway with the nose crabbed into the wind.  Try that and just kick the airplane straight in the flare.  I used to let my airplanes do that all the time in challenging crosswinds.

Yes crosswind landings is one of my favorite things to practice in FS2020. Both ILS approaches and VFR landings.

You always have to crab into the wind. Also with very few exceptions the wind lessens dramatically in the last 50' agl or so.

In a real plane and in the sim I dip the upwind wing and kick in opposite rudder  a few times as I am defending in to see if there is too much wind. 

If it is windy I tend to use less flaps like 20º in stead of 40º. And if that is too much, then I do a no flap approach if the runway is long enough. Or find another airport with a runway into the wind.

This is serious fun in the sim and darn right frightful in a real plane at times. Set the sim to gusty conditions and it gets even more interesting like in real life. Steady  crosswind is actually pretty easy but buildings and trees can make for some interesting vortices that can mess with you in the flair.

3 hours ago, orchestra_nl said:

I've been told that many flight instructors notice quickly which of their new students have been flight simming: Those who have not mainly look out of the windscreen while those who have been simming seem to have their eyes glued to the instruments.

MSFS is the first flight simulator have flown that actually entices me to look out of the windscreen at least as much as at the instruments.

Yeah that's true.

I wrote a while ago an article about simming benefits and problems: https://airfactsjournal.com/2021/06/desktop-flight-simulation-and-covid-how-it-helps-how-it-hinders/

38 minutes ago, MarioDonick said:

Yeah that's true.

I wrote a while ago an article about simming benefits and problems: https://airfactsjournal.com/2021/06/desktop-flight-simulation-and-covid-how-it-helps-how-it-hinders/

Ha-ha, I was the same.  My instructor was constantly telling me to look out the window!   It is just so cool seeing real instruments!

For you pilots out there, another question, please.  I fly P3Dv4.5 with the Brunner CLSE yoke and rudder pedals and an 8 foot wide screen  The force feedback configurations for the yoke and pedals are those created by the Brunner staff.  They have different profiles for different aircraft.  I mostly fly the A2A C172 and Brunner has a profile specifically for it.  After flying an hour or so by hand, my muscles are sore and I go on the autopilot.  The autopilot then moves the yoke--not me.  Is this setup any more realistic? Thanks.

10 minutes ago, vp49p3 said:

For you pilots out there, another question, please.  I fly P3Dv4.5 with the Brunner CLSE yoke and rudder pedals and an 8 foot wide screen  The force feedback configurations for the yoke and pedals are those created by the Brunner staff.  They have different profiles for different aircraft.  I mostly fly the A2A C172 and Brunner has a profile specifically for it.  After flying an hour or so by hand, my muscles are sore and I go on the autopilot.  The autopilot then moves the yoke--not me.  Is this setup any more realistic? Thanks.

NOT a real pilot, but I imagine that if your arms get sore after a while, whether real of simulated flying, you haven't trimmed the aircraft well enough.

21 minutes ago, vp49p3 said:

For you pilots out there, another question, please.  I fly P3Dv4.5 with the Brunner CLSE yoke and rudder pedals and an 8 foot wide screen  The force feedback configurations for the yoke and pedals are those created by the Brunner staff.  They have different profiles for different aircraft.  I mostly fly the A2A C172 and Brunner has a profile specifically for it.  After flying an hour or so by hand, my muscles are sore and I go on the autopilot.  The autopilot then moves the yoke--not me.  Is this setup any more realistic? Thanks.

When you hand fly a GA aircraft like a 172, trim is everything. You trim for takeoff, climb, cruise, decent and landing. The pressure on the yoke is so light that I often make a point of just using 2 fingers lightly. When you change flap setting you trim away any pressure etc.

Unless you are just out stirring oil, I always tried to fly my planes a minimum of 1 hr a week, to keep them running well. So you end up going out and sight seeing quite a bit as an owner. And sight seeing I tend to just hand fly, but even then trim is the key.

When you actually take a trip, typically you hand fly the T/O to 1000' or so then switch on the AP, and spend you time communicating and navigating as well as scanning for traffic when not in the clouds. I always fly the last 1000' before landing as well on an instrument approach. And I always hand fly the last 5 miles into the pattern and the pattern when VFR.

But your eyes need to be outside most of the time, so trim is how you keep your altitude. Now if you go out and do aerobatics you will become exhausted pretty quickly. 

Edited July 5, 20214 yr by 177B

10 hours ago, ar_0 said:

I am no pilot myself. My question is this: which is more realistic, the current state of the sim, or the way it was when released if you remember?

The way they handle now - 100%.

They were far too twitchy on release. You needed more dexterity to land the plane in MSFS than IRL. It's still a bit too floaty, but OK.

Edited July 5, 20214 yr by tweekz