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787flyer

big.LITTLE impact on P3D performance - Intel 12th gen CPU?

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1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

You should have cut this off with his first post. Using the same logic, Tesla should stop building cars because their products share so much in common with a Model T Ford

I know, they're identical, both have 4 wheels, both have steering wheels, both have doors ... Tesla Model S Plaid is identical to the Model T ford ... one goes 0-60 in 1.9 sec and one goes to 60 (I think, maybe, with a good tailwind downhill)  🙂

Agree, this thread went south (again) primarily due to one member with obviously false information that doesn't qualify for being an "opinion".  Didn't Kevin have a thread on this very "issue"?

Cheers, Rob.

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To get back on topic, any processor that helps with single thread CPU performance will be worth looking at for P3D. I'm still running v4.5 with a 8700k at 4.5 GHz and with the graphics settings reasonably high I get no stutters. A 5+ GHz CPU would probably enable me to run higher settings for even more immersion but it wouldn't make a huge difference.

Every Twitch stream I see of MSFS is a stutter fest when using a reasonably complex aircraft so I'm happy with things as they are. Maybe after the next update MSFS will be competitive with P3D but at the moment it's just not.

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1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

You should have cut this off with his first post.

Freedom of speech (up to a point). Let's see what replies there are.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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Posted (edited)

There are benchmarks already of pre production samples. The results might change a bit after release but still give a direction.

From those benchmarks I can tell that the "12900K" (the equivalent of the 12th gen top cpu model) may have an IPC value as large as 25-30% better than that of the 11900K and that is really good. If this holds it will be 60% faster than my 9900K. 

It might be possible to OC it to 5.3 GHz on all 8 "big" cores simulaneously. Its multicore performance will probably be better than that of the 5950X (honestly, it must be, anyway).

And, again it will probably be a very unefficient CPU.

Karl

Edited by kaha

i9-9900K@5,0   |  32GB 3200  |  2080TI  |  4K 55"  |  MSFS | P3D V5

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I think I heard on a PC podcast that to really gain any advantage from the new desktop big/little architecture we'll need to wait for Windows 11?


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11 hours ago, eaim1973 said:

I think I heard on a PC podcast that to really gain any advantage from the new desktop big/little architecture we'll need to wait for Windows 11?

Windows 11 will have changes to the scheduler to take proper advantage of the core types. No practical reason why it couldn't be in Windows 10 but obviously Microsoft wants to give people reasons to move to Win11. 


Host PC - 9700K @ 4.8GHz, 32GB DDR-3200, 512GB NVMe + 2TB NVMe storage, RTX 2080 SUPER primary + GTX 980Ti secondary GPU, AIO cooling
Client PC - 8700K @ 5GHz, 32GB DDR-3200, 512GB NVMe + 2TB NVMe storage, GTX 1080Ti GPU, AIO cooling
Software: Win10, P3D 5.2, tons of ORBX, ASP3D / FSGRW, SPAD.neXt, Immersive Display Pro and just too many others to mention...

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On 7/24/2021 at 9:16 PM, fluffyflops said:

Its a 20+ year old sim.

It amazes my why this urban legend is still circulating in some heads.

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System: i9 9900k@4.9 - 32 GB RAM - Aorus 1080ti --- Sim/Addons: P3D v5 + ProSim737
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2 minutes ago, JoeFackel said:

It amazes my why this urban legend is still circulating in some heads.

Well both P3D and MSFS have roots in the original ESP code, even Asobo said that.  It will be interesting to see whether there is any effect on the performance of all the sims from the new architecture, but it won't be me evaluating it, my hardware is fixed for the next few years now!

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Kevin Firth - i9 10850K @5.2; Asus Maximus XII Hero; 32Gb Cas14 3200 DDR4; RTX3090

Beta tester for: UK2000; JustFlight; VoxATC; FSReborn; //42

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8 minutes ago, neilhewitt said:

Windows 11 will have changes to the scheduler to take proper advantage of the core types. No practical reason why it couldn't be in Windows 10 but obviously Microsoft wants to give people reasons to move to Win11. 

They didn't say they wouldn't work on Windows 10, it's just that at this point of time Windows 10 isn't fully optimised for big/little yet, if ever?


AMD Ryzen 3800X, GIGABYTE X570 Aorus Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD, SAMSUNG QVO (1TB) SSD, 2 * 1 TB M.2 2280 Nvme SSD, Toshiba (4TB) HDD, WD (2TB) HDD,RADEON RX 6800 XT NITRO+ OC SE 16GB GDDR6 , NZXT Kraken X73, NZXT 710 Case, SAITEK X55 JOYSTICK/THROTTLES, SAITEK YOKE, 2 * SAITEK throttles, SAITEK PEDALS, LG 27UL600 4K monitor, Dell U2414H 1080P 2nd monitor.

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2 minutes ago, kevinfirth said:

Well both P3D and MSFS have roots in the original ESP code, even Asobo said that.  It will be interesting to see whether there is any effect on the performance of all the sims from the new architecture, but it won't be me evaluating it, my hardware is fixed for the next few years now!

My system will be more or less the same except I may buy a 5800 or more likely a 5800xt if the latter CPU gets release towards the end of this year.


AMD Ryzen 3800X, GIGABYTE X570 Aorus Ultra, 32GB DDR4 3200 MHz RAM, Samsung 850 EVO 500GB SSD, SAMSUNG QVO (1TB) SSD, 2 * 1 TB M.2 2280 Nvme SSD, Toshiba (4TB) HDD, WD (2TB) HDD,RADEON RX 6800 XT NITRO+ OC SE 16GB GDDR6 , NZXT Kraken X73, NZXT 710 Case, SAITEK X55 JOYSTICK/THROTTLES, SAITEK YOKE, 2 * SAITEK throttles, SAITEK PEDALS, LG 27UL600 4K monitor, Dell U2414H 1080P 2nd monitor.

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4 hours ago, eaim1973 said:

They didn't say they wouldn't work on Windows 10, it's just that at this point of time Windows 10 isn't fully optimised for big/little yet, if ever?

Yes, that's what I meant. Win11 will have changes to take advantage of the different core weights. Win10 will continue to work fine but it will treat all cores as if they were the same 'size'. 


Host PC - 9700K @ 4.8GHz, 32GB DDR-3200, 512GB NVMe + 2TB NVMe storage, RTX 2080 SUPER primary + GTX 980Ti secondary GPU, AIO cooling
Client PC - 8700K @ 5GHz, 32GB DDR-3200, 512GB NVMe + 2TB NVMe storage, GTX 1080Ti GPU, AIO cooling
Software: Win10, P3D 5.2, tons of ORBX, ASP3D / FSGRW, SPAD.neXt, Immersive Display Pro and just too many others to mention...

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7 hours ago, eaim1973 said:

it's just that at this point of time Windows 10 isn't fully optimised for big/little yet

I'm curious, what specifically would need to be "adjusted/updated" on the OS side to work with "big/little" exclusively to gain performance?

Cheers, Rob.

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The scheduler… it needs to determine what threads are doing a heavy workload and transfer them to the big cores of the load isn’t transient.

cheers

 

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Luke Kolin

I make simFDR, the most advanced flight data recorder for FSX, Prepar3D and X-Plane.

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Posted (edited)

How is load duty determined?  Specific set of instruction types?

Cheers, Rob.

EDIT: not trying to put anyone on the spot, just genuinely curious what these OS to CPU specific optimizations could be with 8+8 Intel approach.

Edited by Rob_Ainscough

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Process scheduling is something of a dark art, I think. I've never seen the code for the Windows scheduler, of course, but as I understand it, threads are scheduled primarily based on the priority assigned when they are started (runs from 0-31, only OS tasks can be priority 0) and how much of their time slices they use. A thread that gets called and then yields back to the scheduler before being pre-empted is considered lower priority than one which takes its whole time slice, because it's doing less work. This is also dependent on whether it's a foreground or background process, and whether it's waiting on I/O. Threads waiting on I/O are prioritised higher because they need to be ready when the I/O operation completes, and if they are waiting on an I/O device that the OS knows is 'interactive' (keyboard / mouse etc), those get prioritised higher again. To get an accurate measure of time taken per thread, it uses the CPU's cycle counter which increments for every instruction cycle in a given time-slice. 

For big/little, it would be a case of a) executing less busy threads on smaller cores, and b) adjusting the core loading to suit the power profile. In a mobile / lower-power mode, say on a laptop with a power-saving policy or just low battery, put more work on the smaller cores which consume less power. I assume there will also be ways for code to signal to the CPU that it is more suitable for big or little cores, but I'm just guessing there. 

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Host PC - 9700K @ 4.8GHz, 32GB DDR-3200, 512GB NVMe + 2TB NVMe storage, RTX 2080 SUPER primary + GTX 980Ti secondary GPU, AIO cooling
Client PC - 8700K @ 5GHz, 32GB DDR-3200, 512GB NVMe + 2TB NVMe storage, GTX 1080Ti GPU, AIO cooling
Software: Win10, P3D 5.2, tons of ORBX, ASP3D / FSGRW, SPAD.neXt, Immersive Display Pro and just too many others to mention...

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