Yoke force deadzone

[aviatoralb 5]

Hi all,

Im wondering if any other owners have a roughly 1 inch force deadzone at the center of pitch travel. For me, i only experience this with the handle on. I wonder if the weight of the handle is causing the shaft to rub against the metal guide on the case causing resistance. 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

15 hours ago, aviatoralb said:

Hi all,

Im wondering if any other owners have a roughly 1 inch force deadzone at the center of pitch travel. For me, i only experience this with the handle on. I wonder if the weight of the handle is causing the shaft to rub against the metal guide on the case causing resistance. 

yep

it is sort of handy as you can make minor pitch adjustments without messing about with trim.

[aviatoralb 5]

interesting. I find it somewhat annoying as it doesnt center properly making it harder to trim. Anyways, I only have experience with flying stick aircraft IRL (RV7) so this deadzone could be common on yoke aircraft?

4 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

yep

it is sort of handy as you can make minor pitch adjustments without messing about with trim.

 

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

6 hours ago, aviatoralb said:

interesting. I find it somewhat annoying as it doesnt center properly making it harder to trim. Anyways, I only have experience with flying stick aircraft IRL (RV7) so this deadzone could be common on yoke aircraft?

 

If you are talking real GA aircraft the yoke are a bit clunky in many cases and any centring force is entirely airflow related so dependant on airspeed and prop wash.  If you are parked with the engine idling or stopped the yoke tends to flop forward under the weight of the elevators rather than centre itself.

[aviatoralb 5]

23 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

If you are talking real GA aircraft the yoke are a bit clunky in many cases and any centring force is entirely airflow related so dependant on airspeed and prop wash.  If you are parked with the engine idling or stopped the yoke tends to flop forward under the weight of the elevators rather than centre itself.

Yes. I assume that on a GA airplane the yoke centers itself perfectly at all times, right?

[Glenn Fitzpatrick 3,798]

1 hour ago, aviatoralb said:

Yes. I assume that on a GA airplane the yoke centers itself perfectly at all times, right?

Not really.

Where it sits in a real aircraft depends on trim position and airspeed there is no definitive centre position like a sim yoke, where it wants to sit moves about.  Also from my experience on older Cessna there can sometimes be a bit of play in the yoke movement, though hopefully not much.

Consider lubricating the yoke shaft with teflon spray like suggested in another thread, that may potentially reduce the "deadzone" to something you are more happy with.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Glenn Fitzpatrick

[aviatoralb 5]

Thanks for the advice. I have sent a video of the deadzone to chris to see what he says. I wonder if during shipping the shaft moves around alot causing the need to relubricate. 

5 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

Not really.

Where it sits in a real aircraft depends on trim position and airspeed there is no definitive centre position like a sim yoke, where it wants to sit moves about.  Also from my experience on older Cessna there can sometimes be a bit of play in the yoke movement, though hopefully not much.

Consider lubricating the yoke shaft with teflon spray like suggested in another thread, that may potentially reduce the "deadzone" to something you are more happy with.

 

[johnbla 31]

Thinking of ordering the yoke shortly, is the deadzone a worry? I got rid of my Saitek yoke because of this. Any help greatly appreciated.

[SergeyPe 92]

2 hours ago, johnbla said:

is the deadzone a worry?

I never owned a Satek yoke, but in my understanding it has a pronounced "detent" near the center in the pitch axis, so passing through it you have a kind of "bump". With the Fulcrum it's completely smooth; what you have is a zone near the center of a pitch axis without the springs action, so the yoke handle will stay put anywhere within this zone. However any yoke movement there will still be reflected in the sim, as opposed to some other yokes where the small movements near the center will not be registered.

In my case the pitch "force deadzone" is about 15 mm (but with a different handle which is a bit lighter than a stock one which might explain the difference). It's perfectly OK also considering a much bigger pitch travel compared to a Saitek, so moving the handle within a central area produces much less elevator movement. 

[tutmeister 695]

4 hours ago, johnbla said:

Thinking of ordering the yoke shortly, is the deadzone a worry? I got rid of my Saitek yoke because of this. Any help greatly appreciated.

Hi John, thanks to Sergey above too.

The term deadzone is not really an accurate reflection of what is happening. There is no control deadzone at all in the yoke in terms of detecting movement. What I mean is that even the tiniest movement can be detected by the computer and the control resolution is very high so combined with the long travel it allows an accuracy in control that is excellent.

What is being referred to is a very low spring force right around the middle of the pitch travel. This is so that there is no centre detent at all and allows for exceptional pitch control with one hand. This gives a very realistic feel to flying with the control forces increasing the more you pull or push. This is quite different from other yokes on the market which have a much stronger return to centre force that is less realistic.

Obviously it is easy to see my comment as biased but that was the whole design ethos of this yoke.

Chris

[aviatoralb 5]

2 hours ago, SergeyPe said:

I never owned a Satek yoke, but in my understanding it has a pronounced "detent" near the center in the pitch axis, so passing through it you have a kind of "bump". With the Fulcrum it's completely smooth; what you have is a zone near the center of a pitch axis without the springs action, so the yoke handle will stay put anywhere within this zone. However any yoke movement there will still be reflected in the sim, as opposed to some other yokes where the small movements near the center will not be registered.

In my case the pitch "force deadzone" is about 15 mm (but with a different handle which is a bit lighter than a stock one which might explain the difference). It's perfectly OK also considering a much bigger pitch travel compared to a Saitek, so moving the handle within a central area produces much less elevator movement. 

This is exactly what is happening for about 1 in on mine with a stock handlem. It would be fantastic if chris could update the design with some type of bearing at the front. Even if this costed more, it would make it compete more directly with the yoko. However, at half the price it is a very good product. I have attached a video of the force deadzone. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Prdgy83VJWDkwEVm9HcaW1DkHT2QnDr9/view?usp=sharing

[tutmeister 695]

2 hours ago, aviatoralb said:

It would be fantastic if chris could update the design with some type of bearing at the front.

The original design brief was to have a bearing to support the shaft. This yoke has a much longer throw than others and so due to the increased leverage of a longer shaft and a heavier yoke handle there is more vertical play in the system. The yoko actually doesn't have a front bearing or bushing. It is just has a large hole to allow for a bit of play in the shaft. Because of the increased movement in the Fulcrum One, the hole would have to be huge to clear it. Hence the need for a supporting bearing.

However, you cannot get a bearing designed to allow linear and rotational motion without spending crazy money. There are plenty of linear ball bearings available but not ones that do both. I know because we tried them all but I'm always open to ideas and design improvements.

Because bearings are not an option the next best is some soft of dry bearing or bushing. We tried various types of plastic block including teflon and other similar materials but the metal bush with teflon lining seems to be the best overall solution in that is gives a similar amount of friction to a teflon block but at a lower cost (teflon block is very expensive).

Custom machining something to do this with bearings would also increase costs so wherever possible an off the shelf item is sourced as the aim is to make this as affordable as possible without sacrificing too much. Mechanical design is always a compromise and there may be another way to do something but we are trying to balance features against cost. I still think this out performs other more expensive yoke but despite this we are always looking for design improvements.

Chris

[tutmeister 695]

One thing worth trying is use the allen key that fits the yoke handle and loosen the 2 bolts on the front bushing. You only need to turn them about 1 turn but try that and retest. This will allow the front bushing to move a little bit in case it was slightly misaligned through transit. Also Teflon spray or equivalent on the shaft can help. This was pointed out to me by a customer who had this issue and fixed it by doing this.

Chris

[aviatoralb 5]

Thanks for the suggestions. I totally understand that it would be incredibly expensive to make some sort of bearing for the shaft

[Ixoye 1,812]

9 hours ago, aviatoralb said:

This is exactly what is happening for about 1 in on mine with a stock handlem. It would be fantastic if chris could update the design with some type of bearing at the front. Even if this costed more, it would make it compete more directly with the yoko. However, at half the price it is a very good product. I have attached a video of the force deadzone. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Prdgy83VJWDkwEVm9HcaW1DkHT2QnDr9/view?usp=sharing

That scratching sound makes me worried.