Soon...soon....FSX SP1 !

[greggerm 312]

>I think that we all need to clear our minds in releation to the patch. let it happen whenever it happens and release any preconceived notions of benchmarks, improvements or enhancements. Holy cow you are right.Those who are most anticipating the patch are those who probably need it's help the most (performance issues). Therefore, they are the ones hoping most for significant improvements - which for nearly any patch are usually UNDERwhelming rather than overwhelming.I sense a *HUGE* backlash from some folks when they still don't get FS2004-generation performance from a max-settings FSX. It just won't happen. An optimistic 20% improvement is great, but isn't a big leap.The only true patch will be the next-gen of processors which are on the march from trusty Intel and AMD - just as Microsoft initially designed. You can lead a horse to water (the sliders), but you can't make him move them to the left. ;)

[CPEPE 0]

Hi, Just consider yourself extremely lucky as there are some of us who still can't get a clean install without the 1722/1603 errors and other related problems.Tony

[Gate99 246]

>Well this whole sp1 debacle is on my nerves anyway. debacle?>Aces should have done what>they said they were gonna do and release the dx10 patch>instead of wasting our time on a sp1 patch that we all know>will do little to nothing for anyone.Boy, someone is the pesimist.The DX10 patch will come in good time.> Maybe I should apply for>a PM job at Aces because it appears that they are in dire need>of one.Me thinks not.Regards,Mark

[Guest]

I'm a realist. In good time was supposed to be in late february from what we were originally told, not almost a year later after a spur of the moment patch that will move people from 12fps to 14fps. I don't want to get into an argument but I just don't think that I am the only one that thinks this way. I wonder if they took a poll about who would rather have dx10 next month or some effectively worthless patch that as far as i can tell is only keeping us from getting the addons now that we want because no dev wants to release any addons now until the patch comes out so they can see what it broke? I know i vote for dx10 because chances are that it will not only make things look better, but also give the same amount of frame rate increase as an sp1 patch. I still say that the only reason they are releasing a sp1 patch is because they are nowhere near a point of having the ability to release a dx10 patch and are using sp1 as a smoke screen to give them the extra year that they need. My thoughts only of course.I want my fsx dodo!@@##!________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 565/900 | Seagate 2x320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW | Matrox Triplehead Setup

[DadJokeCinema 145]

You know, AD, constantly referring to a patch that's not out yet as "effectively worthless" really sounds like you're just trying to incite something here.I would personally prefer that you refrain from judging the relative value of the patch until it's actually been released.

[boshar 6]

>I still say that the only reason they are releasing a sp1>patch is because they are nowhere near a point of having the>ability to release a dx10 patch and are using sp1 as a smoke>screen to give them the extra year that they need. My thoughts>only of course.Do yo have any basis expecting the DX10 patch to come out spring 2008? If DX10 is sheduled for spring 2008 I will opt to wait for holiday season 2009 and FS-XI before I get FS-X again (got a refund).

[Mace 1,964]

>>I think that we all need to clear our minds in releation to>the patch. let it happen whenever it happens and release any>preconceived notions of benchmarks, improvements or>enhancements. >>Holy cow you are right.>>Those who are most anticipating the patch are those who>probably need it's help the most (performance issues).>Therefore, they are the ones hoping most for significant>improvements - which for nearly any patch are usually>UNDERwhelming rather than overwhelming.>>I sense a *HUGE* backlash from some folks when they still>don't get FS2004-generation performance from a max-settings>FSX. It just won't happen. An optimistic 20% improvement is>great, but isn't a big leap.>>The only true patch will be the next-gen of processors which>are on the march from trusty Intel and AMD - just as Microsoft>initially designed. >>You can lead a horse to water (the sliders), but you can't>make him move them to the left. ;) >>Some people need to re-read your post. It's right on.Overexpectations are the worst thing...RhettAMD 3700+ (@2310 mhz), eVGA 7800GT 256 (Guru3D 93.71), ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 GB Corsair XMS 2.5-3-3-8 (1T), WD 250 gig 7200 rpm SATA2, CoolerMaster Praetorian case

[Guest JeanLuc_]

"The only true patch will be the next-gen of processors" is an interesting comment to me. Phil Taylor also has written in another thread what is one of bottleneck in FSX CPU wise:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...id=391008&page="One source of bottlenecks are the per-frame number of D3D API calls. Which can cause a block in the driver on the CPU-side.Part of the SP1 work is to reduce these calls. The DX10 release will give additional reductions due to the better instancing, and due to the reduced per-API call overhead."Now, this makes me see light differently! software architecture of FSX may well have been designed with DX10 in mind from the ground up, which was supposed to be released at the same time (FSX+Vista+DX10), and then they probably took the liberty to push the Direct3D API to its limits, knowing that maybe half of the calls would be saved with DX10 instead of with DX9.Unfortunately, this is basing the software architecture on a 3 years from know basis (when a lot of us will have a Vista+DX10 computer). However, from the time being, it seems this hardware basis to run FSX is not there yet enough on our community.Reminds me a note about Duke Nukem Forever I've read yesterday at ign.com:http://pc.ign.com/articles/774/774639p1.html================================================================Many PC gamers were a bit fearful of DNF, assuming the game would be a true beast that only high-end systems could handle. According to Miller, that's not the case. "We try to support all of the newer, cool whiz-bang graphics features," Miller admitted to YouGamers, "but at the same time we try to make it so the game will run on middle-range machines, too."===============================================================Quite a different perspective.All in all, if the bottleneck is the software architecture at the driver level due to the number of API calls, then no wonder at a certain point, you get poor performance no matter what new video card you add or new CPU you add like some have reported many times in these forums. I can't wait to see how SP1 solves this.Jean-Luc

[Niwotian60 0]

>>Anyone with a 2 core E6700 as you have would get nice fps.>>>>Dont count on it. I have one and a NVidia 8800GTX and the>frame rates vary between 20 right down to 1 when it gets>really heavy.>I guess what it comes down to is what settings you use. I have>everything turned up full. If you turn all the nice stuff off>such as autogen off then you will get good rates.I'm running a quad core with two 8800GTX's (SLI) and still only getting 15-25 with autogen at normal and complexity at dense. But my flying style is more slow-and-low/NOE, acrobatic, and I prefer flying at 1000' over complex cities like Las Vegas more than 37,000' over Nebraska. The frustrating thing for me is that three of the four cores are pretty much useless, and the SLI performance meter indicates that I'm only getting a very small (< 20% best case) improvement from the second GPU card; I'm not CPU-, GPU-, RAM-, or IO-bound yet the underlying engine can't fully exploit the available power. But I still love flying it.

[frankla 45]

What the heck is D3D? What is API? Does it have anything to do with Carburator icing?

[Guest]

>You know, AD, constantly referring to a patch that's not out>yet as "effectively worthless" really sounds like you're just>trying to incite something here.>>I would personally prefer that you refrain from judging the>relative value of the patch until it's actually been>released.That's where you are wrong senator. I am not trying to 'incite' anything as you say. Just venting MY frustration on releasing a patch that will be obsolete when dx10 comes out anyway! Why not just release dx10 on schedule instead of holding us all up waiting for this patch before any addons will ever be released? If I were a dev I wouldn't release any addons either until they were run through the ringer with sp1. It's just very frustrating for me on a logical basis as to why they threw such a big wrench into the works and delayed their original plan to release dx10. I just can't see it unless they needed the extra time. Maybe they realized that not as many people as they thought were moving to vista? Maybe they wanted to help the people still running old gear at the expense of us that upgrade every 2 years? I don't know! All I know is that this patch has dragged on for what seems like an eternity now and until they get this THING out the door dodosim will not release their fsx version of the dodo.________________________________________________________________________________________________Intel D975XBX2 'Bad Axe 2' | Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.20Ghz | 2 GB Super Talent DDR2 800 | Big Typhoon VX | eVGA 8800GTS @ 565/900 | Seagate 2x320GB SATA RAID-0 | OCZ GameXStream 700W | Creative X-Fi | Silverstone TJ-09BW | Matrox Triplehead Setup

[Geofa 108]

The way I figure it-if they released the dx10 patch and didn't have a Sp1 first-the majority would be ranting that they don't have Vista, are perfectly happy running Xp, and that it is a cheap ploy by Ms to get users to buy Vista.Seems to me they are taking the right approach. In my case-even though I am running Vista now-I am not ready to buy a dx10 card till the market shakes out-so I am also happier they are taking the route that they are.I would expect the patch is dragging on because they are trying to get it right so they can in fact move on to the dx10 patch.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

[PLazarus 0]

JL, Is that you of RXP fame...? I assume so...I have a quesion- If FSX in the present form, with the present hardware is unable to use the full capabilities of multi CPU's etc, then would it not be possible for products like the AXP Airbus line, that will run "outside" the sim to use some of those "unused" hardware resources on multi-core CPU's etc?I am not a programmer or expert... but if it were posible then we would be able to have complex addons with limited or no impact on FSX performance.I like FSX a lot. I feel confident that with MS/Aces investing efforts to improve it with SP1 + SP? as well as the DX10 update and Trainsim team working with the same base engine, plus.. and this is a big plus, we have very talented programmers working on the sophisticated addons we all crave.... so all in all we have a lot of clever, enthusiastic people working to improve our simming experience.Expectations are what create the frustrations... lower the sliders a bit, wait 18 months for the SP's, updates, addons and hardware to catch up. Enjoy your FS9 and FSX side by side... I guess it's going to be at least 3 years before we see FS11.Cheers,Paul

[Guest]

>99% of the people who are punching the air, praising their>40fps are bush flyers flying in the hills. The minute most>people come near civilisation, the problems start. This is not always true. I am getting 25fps in the shot below on my 2.8GHz Athlon, and this is with autogen at maximum. http://sio.midco.net/111lll/fsx%202007-03-...02-57-38-95.jpg

[Guest Len]

Wait boys and girls. I'm as anxious as everyone else because as JL notes the overhead for complex addons just isn't there. The only addon I've purchased is MyTraffic X my long time AI program I've had for now 3 incarnations of FS. But I can only run it at 15-20% (with autogen off). Trying to fly a PMDG product with the existing overhead would be an exercise in futility.I can wait patiently though because FS9 at 80% AI and LDS 767/PMDG 747 is still bringing immense pleasure.