What Ubuntu release did you build the plugin against? 20.04?

Needed to build the plugin locally as the linked libc version in your deployment release is too old on my Arch system.

1 hour ago, Bjoern said:

What Ubuntu release did you build the plugin against? 20.04?

Needed to build the plugin locally as the linked libc version in your deployment release is too old on my Arch system.

probably to new (GLIBC_2.34). old libcs are ok, its newer that causes problems, and Im on FC35 now.

I was looking over the weekend how to force older and generic versions of the libraries because I thought that might end up being a problem (not found an answer yet, most promising looks like asm linking).

Probably this

https://www.spinics.net/lists/centos-devel/msg20654.html

Quote

As a result, any program
linked against glibc 2.34 will not run with glibc 2.33 or any earlier
version.  (Some of you may remember the memcpy@GLIBC_2.14 issue, it was
similar.)  This version requirement will be properly reflected in RPM
dependencies.

hmmm.

Edited December 6, 20214 yr by mSparks

Just checked Arch's glibc Package, which is still 2.33 anywhere I look. This is really odd, considering Arch is supposed to feature equally new or newer packages than other distros...oh well.

"rare" fatal bug pinned with a dagger today.

Rejecting then approving a request in between sending and getting the read back for a rejected message.

Or perhaps more understandable way

ATC: Sends reject message

ATC: Decides it doesn't need to reject

Plane:reads back reject message

ATC: Processes the reject message read back as if its a read back for the unsent approved message.

Chaos ensues:

Solution should be to not proceed to expecting an approved response until the reject response has been read back (well duhh!!), that's in testing now.

 

 

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

IFR "support" is technically already live (you'll hear AI aircraft get headings on radar for example)

I did notice some new exchanges, yes.

 

Quote

That should actually "just" be a single click my side, but the last time I cut it things broke (or rather it caught lots of things that were broken), building up the energy for the sleepless nights expected when I cut it again. The main issue with the stations from XP is they are only about 30% complete, so they are supplemented from several sources, then overridden by an airport definition when someone points out one is wrong. Getting and keeping that current is probably going to need its own "gateway".

Or just redrect any complaints to the Gateway, so users need to fix it there in order to see it in AutoATC at some point.

I use AutoATC for traffic injection only (ATC is provided by SimpleATC), and the frequency discrepancies are enormous so that I seldomly get chatter from the former when tuned to an agency in the latter. On one hand, you want all frequencies to be as synchronized with the eal ones as possible for real world training, but on the other hand, X-Plane lags behind real AIP data until somebody has the time to update the Gateway airports.

I can't really offer you an elegant way out of that one exept for two-tier system (AutoATC handling frequencies vs X-Plane handling frequencies), but that'd require rewriting the complete frequency handling logic.

 

Quote

Then, to top everything off.

Interest in X-Plane is generally completely dead, everyone really did pretty much abandon the org forums thanks to their shenanigans, 2 years ago that would have been 500 views on the first day regardless of when it was posted, now its 34 in about a week and gone from the main page so will get very few more. If I didn't have the discord so popular I'd have had no choice but to abandon it..... Its hard work, mostly thankless (have had a couple of phenomenal thank you mails though) and messages like jarmstros now hidden message are actually mostly "empty" - by and large people think they want a realistic ATC, then when they find out how much harder it makes an already hard hobby decide they don't really want ATC.

Yes, traffic on the Org is a bit slow at the moment, but to be honest, an audio device handling update isn't new enough to generate much interest in a plugin that, in its current condition, doesn't catch a large audience in the first place. Most flight simmers aren't training for a real license or real pilots who want to keep their communicaitions skills in the VFR domain current. They're armchair pilots who need something which just works in all circumstances, VFR or IFR, GA or airliner, and which won't occupy much of their attention to get phraseology right and doesn't require voice recognition training on an app.

Next to people really interested in realistic VFR communication, the only "market" that AutoATC has for itself at the moment is AI traffic injection on Linux. WorldTraffic for Linux is horribly out of date, TrafficGlobal for Linux is nonexistent and LiveTraffic does not have engine sounds, complete AI flights and AI chatter. But you and I know that Linux flight simmers are a smallish crowd, so even that is not guaranteed to draw in masses of users.

I'd have more interest if AutoATC development hadn't taken a back seat to the 747.

 

Quote

On the other hand, while I can't say anything about XP12, I can say I have high confidence in AutoATC v1 for XP12 (exact naming to be decided, prior versions do not and will not work with it) and the renewed interest in X-Plane it will bring when it goes live, and that none of the work so far was wasted.

I've seen your commits to the XP12 branch for AutoATC on Github. What's the plan there? Transfer the entire plugin side to XTLua and ditch the JVM and MaryTTS?

 

Quote

I can also confirm that

https://developer.x-plane.com/2022/02/wake-turbulence/

Is true, is nice, and that I already have all the data needed to upgrade from the "generic learjet" - there is also more, that I can't talk about just yet.

So just plodding along, fixing and adding what I see or gets highlighted. Some recent additions include the radio distortion is now based on range, VFR stuff is now basically all in, "tickets" already fixed most of the really nasty issues (e.g. getting sent to the runway instead of gate after landing).

But there is not much point in shouting about it, because no one is really listening, and all the new guys and gals that come in here havn't even tried X-Plane, let alone got into its plugin system - but hey, at least a half interesting thread gets more than 30 views and no replies, and avsim will get the traffic when people start googling for X-Plane 12 ATC.

AutoATC will at least still have a niche as an AI traffic injector as I have not heard anything about any change to XP's very limited AI system.

Edited March 3, 20224 yr by Bjoern

56 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

Yes, traffic on the Org is a bit slow at the moment, but to be honest,

Its not just that.

On 2/16/2022 at 3:31 PM, Janov said:

If you had any idea how complex the REAL ATC/aircraft environment is...with just in Europe alone thousands of highly trained experts aided by computers trying to handle it safely at any second of the year...you might have an idea why that is not within the scope of a desktop simulator. Even if it was dedicated to this task alone.

It is not enough to just mirror the aircraft of the real world into your computer (like some OTHER program attempts to 🙄) - you also need to have them interact with (correct) ATC frequencies, and ALSO react and respond to the user´s aircraft and requests - which makes the "mirroring" not suitable.

Its like they go out of their way....

From XB A318 to AutoATC and the 744, they've ####'d off pretty much the entire existing community, and most of the developers I've been talking to as well. People noticed. That post was really aimed at seeing how many people are actually left there reading stuff, basically none.

56 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

(ATC is provided by SimpleATC)

Thing is, high alt stuff does seen to be mostly quiet these days except for friendly banter and a rare GA, the big boys all use ACARS/CPDLC

That's actually just missing a lua commit in the 744 for those FMC pages and the discord bot making public, I dont count the 744 as airworthy atm tho.

56 minutes ago, Bjoern said:

I've seen your commits to the XP12 branch for AutoATC on Github. What's the plan there? Transfer the entire plugin side to XTLua and ditch the JVM and MaryTTS?

All the instances are being scripted in lua. Its additional stuff rather than replacing anything.

So the basic plan is planes getting push backs actually get pushed back, follow me car will do 3 point turns, I can tie in all the weapons, hit detection, animations, new fmod sounds, basically rapidly script object behaviour rather than having to rely on slowly debugging the C stuff which has a habit of just randomly exploding the sim with no warning unless you start it with GDB. plus I can reload the scripts while the sim is running, all without touching the FPS.

All the fun stuff. A lot more I could do than I'll ever have time for tbh, so no promises, just "that's the basic plan".

Edited March 3, 20224 yr by mSparks

3 hours ago, Bjoern said:

I did notice some new exchanges, yes.

 

Or just redrect any complaints to the Gateway, so users need to fix it there in order to see it in AutoATC at some point.

I use AutoATC for traffic injection only (ATC is provided by SimpleATC), and the frequency discrepancies are enormous so that I seldomly get chatter from the former when tuned to an agency in the latter. On one hand, you want all frequencies to be as synchronized with the eal ones as possible for real world training, but on the other hand, X-Plane lags behind real AIP data until somebody has the time to update the Gateway airports.

I can't really offer you an elegant way out of that one exept for two-tier system (AutoATC handling frequencies vs X-Plane handling frequencies), but that'd require rewriting the complete frequency handling logic.

 

Yes, traffic on the Org is a bit slow at the moment, but to be honest, an audio device handling update isn't new enough to generate much interest in a plugin that, in its current condition, doesn't catch a large audience in the first place. Most flight simmers aren't training for a real license or real pilots who want to keep their communicaitions skills in the VFR domain current. They're armchair pilots who need something which just works in all circumstances, VFR or IFR, GA or airliner, and which won't occupy much of their attention to get phraseology right and doesn't require voice recognition training on an app.

Next to people really interested in realistic VFR communication, the only "market" that AutoATC has for itself at the moment is AI traffic injection on Linux. WorldTraffic for Linux is horribly out of date, TrafficGlobal for Linux is nonexistent and LiveTraffic does not have engine sounds, complete AI flights and AI chatter. But you and I know that Linux flight simmers are a smallish crowd, so even that is not guaranteed to draw in masses of users.

I'd have more interest if AutoATC development hadn't taken a back seat to the 747.

 

I've seen your commits to the XP12 branch for AutoATC on Github. What's the plan there? Transfer the entire plugin side to XTLua and ditch the JVM and MaryTTS?

 

AutoATC will at least still have a niche as an AI traffic injector as I have not heard anything about any change to XP's very limited AI system.

You must of missed the video

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

Its not just that.

Its like they go out of their way....

From XB A318 to AutoATC and the 744, they've ####'d off pretty much the entire existing community, and most of the developers I've been talking to as well. People noticed. That post was really aimed at seeing how many people are actually left there reading stuff, basically none.

Not noticing anything except that devs annoyingly seem to rely on Discord nowadays as a primary means of communication.

 

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

Thing is, high alt stuff does seen to be mostly quiet these days except for friendly banter and a rare GA, the big boys all use ACARS/CPDLC

That's actually just missing a lua commit in the 744 for those FMC pages and the discord bot making public, I dont count the 744 as airworthy atm tho.

ACARS/CPDLC is a supplement to verbal communication with ATC, not a replacement and is only used in a few select regions above a certain altitude. Below that, you're still very well in the hands of a center controller.

 

10 hours ago, mSparks said:

All the instances are being scripted in lua. Its additional stuff rather than replacing anything.

So the basic plan is planes getting push backs actually get pushed back, follow me car will do 3 point turns, I can tie in all the weapons, hit detection, animations, new fmod sounds, basically rapidly script object behaviour rather than having to rely on slowly debugging the C stuff which has a habit of just randomly exploding the sim with no warning unless you start it with GDB. plus I can reload the scripts while the sim is running, all without touching the FPS.

All the fun stuff. A lot more I could do than I'll ever have time for tbh, so no promises, just "that's the basic plan".

Sounds good.

 

7 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

You must of missed the video

What video?

2 hours ago, Bjoern said:

ACARS/CPDLC is a supplement to verbal communication with ATC, not a replacement and is only used in a few select regions above a certain altitude. Below that, you're still very well in the hands of a center controller.

Its required by EASA above FL285

https://www.easa.europa.eu/the-agency/faqs/airspace-usage-requirements-dlscpdlc-controller-pilot-data-link-communication

Quote

The DLS IR mandates CPDLC (controller pilot data link communication) capability for aircraft operating above FL 285. Aircraft capability is understood as the aircraft being properly equipped and fight crew appropriately trained as agreed with the operator’s Competent Authority. 

Note: CPDLC operation does not require a specific approval in accordance with Part-SPA of the Commission Regulation (EU) 965/2012.

Not checked the US/FAA, but I expect it to be similar.

(afaict - like I said the sit down with the ATC guys still hasn't happened) For scheduled flights "mostly" the last comms they have after taking off is clearance to their cruise altitude, they then ping position reports over ACARS/CPDLC for the duration of the flight, maybe get a couple of FL changes or a new flight plan for weather over it, then the next voice comms is clearance down to approach the airport.

For non scheduled and GA, voice is still mostly little more than maintaining comms, and even then over SATCOM rather than VHF.

https://www.eurocontrol.int/system/satellite-communications-datalink

So even with large numbers of planes in the air this still leads to the stations between airports being mostly quiet, with the majority of voice being entering and exiting different control areas after take off and for landing.

 

Edited March 4, 20224 yr by mSparks

Geek talk. So where is a link that gives me realistic ATC please? And no, I am not capable of coding anything or modding any files. What is all this nonsense?

10 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Geek talk. So where is a link that gives me realistic ATC please? And no, I am not capable of coding anything or modding any files. What is all this nonsense?

https://github.com/mSparks43/XPlane-11-AutoATC-plugin/releases/tag/v0.9.8

does

with the android apps

and

see also

 

 

Edited March 4, 20224 yr by mSparks

Just now, mSparks said:

https://github.com/mSparks43/XPlane-11-AutoATC-plugin/releases/tag/v0.9.8

does

with the android apps

and

 

No, no. GitHub rubbish will break my sim. It's done so many times before. Where's the actual release?

2 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

No, no. GitHub rubbish will break my sim. It's done so many times before. Where's the actual release?

github is just a place to store and share files and their changes. pretty much just extract the release zip for your OS into your plugins folder. extra install for the planes/liveries explained in the readme.

 

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

github is just a place to store and share files and their changes. pretty much just extract the release zip for your OS into your plugins folder. extra install for the planes/liveries explained in the readme.

 

No give us a direct link to this wondrous plugin. I am not a Git or a Geek. I'm betting I it will break the heart and soul of most who go anywhere near it.

Edited March 4, 20224 yr by jarmstro

27 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

No give us a direct link to this wondrous plugin. I am not a Git or a Geek. I'm betting I it will break the heart and soul of most who go anywhere near it.

I just did

https://github.com/mSparks43/XPlane-11-AutoATC-plugin/releases/tag/v0.9.8

Describes and links the android apps to talk to it, and the plugin (that you just extract to Resources/plugins)

Windows

https://github.com/mSparks43/XPlane-11-AutoATC-plugin/releases/download/v0.9.8/AutoATCv0.9.8.3.win.zip

Linux

https://github.com/mSparks43/XPlane-11-AutoATC-plugin/releases/download/v0.9.8/AutoATCv0.9.8.3.lin.zip

Mac

https://github.com/mSparks43/XPlane-11-AutoATC-plugin/releases/download/v0.9.8/AutoATCv0.9.8.3.mac.zip

Edited March 4, 20224 yr by mSparks