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Deltaair1212

60Hz monitor refresh rate questions

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12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Will a 3090 at a 3rd party Heathrow with 100+ Ai give you 60fps? Not without reducing those sliders I suspect. 😉

Anyway, each to their own.

I don't know Ray, my comment was slightly tongue in cheek, but I can say I get 50fps (which my TV does natively) with very consistent timeframes with the Q400 at regional sceneries with lots of AI traffic (I don't fly from superhubs).

Regardless of where and what you fly though, it's unfortunately a trueism that better hardware gets you better results, the only thing that stays the same is the impact on our wallets :p. I absolutely agree though that 30fps vsynced is a sweet spot for acceptable performance and visuals.


Kevin Firth - i9 10850K @5.2; Asus Maximus XII Hero; 32Gb Cas14 3200 DDR4; RTX3090

Beta tester for: UK2000; JustFlight; VoxATC; FSReborn; //42

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Is the Q400 fairly easy on performance Kev? I’m assuming so. The choice of aircraft is important of course. Staying away from those large airports helps but you still need to be on your toes with smaller ones like Orbx Brisbane. Dreadful stuttering with the PMDG737 was solved by reducing Dynamic Lighting by one notch. And 3D people at FlyTampa ones also have a significant impact.

Keeps us on our toes! 😁


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Is the Q400 fairly easy on performance Kev? I’m assuming so. The choice of aircraft is important of course. Staying away from those large airports helps but you still need to be on your toes with smaller ones like Orbx Brisbane. Dreadful stuttering with the PMDG737 was solved by reducing Dynamic Lighting by one notch. And 3D people at FlyTampa ones also have a significant impact.

Keeps us on our toes! 😁

This is where GSync monitors are becoming so critical.  Butter smooth performance at any FPS because the monitor is dynamically matching FPS to refresh rate.  With a GSync monitor (and some GSync compatible) you can have smooth performance anywhere in the monitors capable range.  

To Ray's point 30FPS on a 30Hz monitor is the best "compromise"  The best non compromise is a GSync monitor where you do not have to limit to your lowest denominator but can rely on VSync for FPS above 60 and GSync to dynamically smooth frames out in the 20-60 range.   In my case my monitor supports GSync from 24-144  but I lock my monitor refresh at 60 as 60FPS on a 60Hz monitor with GSync is a pretty special experience... 

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Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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Interesting that BenQ do not "officially" support G-Sync. They only support Freesync. To quote them... "While G-Sync could work on our FreeSync screens, it's not officially supported."

Searching for "best G-Sync 4K monitor" reveals this one but the price is 50% higher than I paid for my PD3200U. Ouch! Which monitor do you have Paul?


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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11 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Interesting that BenQ do not "officially" support G-Sync. They only support Freesync. To quote them... "While G-Sync could work on our FreeSync screens, it's not officially supported."

Searching for "best G-Sync 4K monitor" reveals this one but the price is 50% higher than I paid for my PD3200U. Ouch! Which monitor do you have Paul?

Hi Ray,

I have the Viotek 49 inch ultrawide 5120x1440 @120hz   Yes, G-Sync is absurdly expensive right now. Mine is Freesync as well so G-Sync compatible.  I had to enable it in the monitors menu directly.  Most G-Sync "compatible" can perform VRR or Adaptive refresh whatever the buzzword of the day is but typically the are in the 48-144 range.  Some can do 30-144 but they are less commonplace.  Anything below 48 FPS and you would lose the G-Sync benefits. Mine lists 48-144 but I've witnessed it as low as 24FPS.  I'm not even sure the manufacturers know LOL 

So right now it is very early days but the reason the monitor is so expensive is prior displays were just that, displays, the new G-Sync monitors have compute built in so you are paying for that processing.  Is it worth it, that depends.  So in theory you could take a current system that can only get 30-40 FPS, add a G-Sync monitor and without touching the system have exponentially improved performance.  Some of the GSync native displays are capable all the way down to 1 FPS!  No GPU on the market will get you from 30-60FPS smoothly but a monitor can... 

When it came time for me to upgrade my 2080 to a 3080 which still wouldn't guarantee a smooth 60FPS experience everywhere to your earlier point investing in the monitor instead got me my desired outcome.  Now I can wait for GPU prices to come back down but I paid for it with the monitor LOL.    

Edited by psolk

Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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@psolk, I've no doubt that with a powerful enough GPU and the right settings in the monitor it can work very well. If I was considering one it would be helpful to either visit someone who had it or have it on a week's trial.

Locking the monitor to the GPU is one area of concern. One day AMD might beat Nvidia but not for a while I guess.

And of course your vertical res is 1440 and despite it being ultra-wide it's still processing 900,000 fewer pixels than my 32" UHD. That will help performance of course.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.2 & v3.4, Intel i7-8086K o/c to 5.2Ghz, Nvidia GTX 1080 Ti 11Gb, Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD, 1Tb Samsung 860 EVO SSD, Asus Prime Z370-A mobo, 32Gb G.Skill DDR4 3000Mhz RAM, Win 10 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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Ok so let me get this straight. Those of y’all with 144hz monitors get bad stutters anytime the frame rate drops below 144fps? So any monitor that is above 60hz is useless for P3D? 

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2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Is the Q400 fairly easy on performance Kev? I’m assuming so. The choice of aircraft is important of course. Staying away from those large airports helps but you still need to be on your toes with smaller ones like Orbx Brisbane. Dreadful stuttering with the PMDG737 was solved by reducing Dynamic Lighting by one notch. And 3D people at FlyTampa ones also have a significant impact.

Keeps us on our toes! 😁

Yes it's fairly light on CPU, my 10850k barely canters above 60% use for most of the time at 5.1Ghz, much of which is due to the flight model running externally.  With 10 cores that's really no issue.  The GPU has always been the limiting factor for me particularly in heavy weather.  Now it's no problem at all. Ofc I can still max out the 3090 with AA if I feel evil or need to heat the room considering the price of gas in the UK nowadays 🤣

Having looked at gsync monitors I came to the conclusion that the 3090 was the most cost effective solution... 💶💶💶🔥🔥🔥

Edited by kevinfirth
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Kevin Firth - i9 10850K @5.2; Asus Maximus XII Hero; 32Gb Cas14 3200 DDR4; RTX3090

Beta tester for: UK2000; JustFlight; VoxATC; FSReborn; //42

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30 minutes ago, Deltaair1212 said:

Ok so let me get this straight. Those of y’all with 144hz monitors get bad stutters anytime the frame rate drops below 144fps? So any monitor that is above 60hz is useless for P3D? 

If you left everything unlocked and left refresh and FPS at 144 in P3D then yes, natively it would be a stuttering mess.  Trying to maintain 144FPS in P3D is unachievable so yes, you would be left with stuttering as FPS fluctuated.  They key is 1. finding sustainable performance and 2. matching your achievable/sustainable FPS to your refresh.  Even with a 144hz monitor I lock refresh to 60hz for flight sims.   iRacing I run at 120hz.  

For years 30 FPS was the max sustainable so people actually reverted their monitors to 30hz refresh and that is still common practice today.

GSync dynamically matches refresh to FPS eliminating stutters as FPS fluctuates. 

@kevinfirth As there really isn't a video card, even a 3090 that can mimic the performance of G-Sync and dynamically provide smooth performance between 30-60FPS when 60 FPS is unobtainable (even with a 3090) it's not a fair comparison.  I can spend $2,000+ on a 3090 and gain a few FPS over my 2080ti or I can spend $2,000 on a monitor that can literally deliver smooth performance overnight at any FPS...  Furthermore I tend to upgrade video cards 5x more frequently than monitors so for me it was a far better long term investment.  Can't count the amount of times I upgraded a GPU at significant cost for 3-5% performance gains.   Now I can get exponential performance gains without having to upgrade the GPU at all and my current system gained a few years of life.  That's powerful stuff.    

Edited by psolk
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Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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18 hours ago, TurboKen said:

As I just recently found out V5 works very well at 30hz, and along with upgrading to V5 you will get a nice performance boost (as long as EA is turned off). Something to consider.

My experience is that EA has nothing to do with fps. I use it as a permanent fixture. In NCP, I have Vsync at Adaptive, 1/2 refresh rate. In V5, I have FPS set to 38, 1/2 my monitor's 75h refresh rate. BTW, My GPU is an Nvidia 1660ti with 6GB ram.

Sherm

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25 minutes ago, psolk said:

As there really isn't a video card, even a 3090 that can mimic the performance of G-Sync and dynamically provide smooth performance between 30-60FPS when 60 FPS is unobtainable (even with a 3090) it's not a fair comparison.  I can spend $2,000+ on a 3090 and gain a few FPS over my 2080ti or I can spend $2,000 on a monitor that can literally deliver smooth performance overnight at any FPS...  Furthermore I tend to upgrade video cards 5x more frequently than monitors so for me it was a far better long term investment.  Can't count the amount of times I upgraded a GPU at significant cost for 3-5% performance gains.   Now I can get exponential performance gains without having to upgrade the GPU at all and my current system gained a few years of life.  That's powerful stuff.    

Fair play, but I wanted the raw boost to performance not just a monitor to sync with the available framerate.  That was because I use a lot of head tracking and I find it a more pleasurable experience with a higher framerate, (factoring out any stuttering or lack of it due to the vsynced fps at any rate.)  4k 50" Gsync monitors seem to be almost non-existent...

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Kevin Firth - i9 10850K @5.2; Asus Maximus XII Hero; 32Gb Cas14 3200 DDR4; RTX3090

Beta tester for: UK2000; JustFlight; VoxATC; FSReborn; //42

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I had to laugh. "a current system that can only get 30-40 FPS".

ONLY!!!!

My goodness, if I could consistently get two thirds of that, I would be over the moon.

But then I do fly PMDG 744 into major airports with AI and real time weather.😏


Intel i7 6700K @4.3. 32gb Gskill 3200 RAM. Z170x Gigabyte m/b. 28" LG HD monitor. Win 10 Home. 500g Samsung 960 as Windows home. 1 Gb Mushkin SSD for P3D. GTX 1080 8gb.

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VRR doesn’t remove stutters, it simply prevents screen tearing because the monitor operates on frame ready from GPU rather than it’s own frequency update schedule (Hz).

Not all games/sims support VRR, they need to add the support.

As I pointed out before, check the VRR range supported by the monitor/TV.

Cheers, Rob

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7 hours ago, shermank said:

My experience is that EA has nothing to do with fps. I use it as a permanent fixture. In NCP, I have Vsync at Adaptive, 1/2 refresh rate. In V5, I have FPS set to 38, 1/2 my monitor's 75h refresh rate. BTW, My GPU is an Nvidia 1660ti with 6GB ram.

Sherm

My mistake it was not EA causing the slowdown it was the new road night lighting causing the hits.

Also DO NOT use P3D to limit frame rate leave it at unlimited or it will introduce stutters. Use NCP to limit frame rate. Currently I am only using 1/2 refresh rate and unlimited in sim. That's it. That's the only changes and its very smooth, no screen tearing with high graphic settings and true earth scenery.


Flight Simulator - P3D V4.5/V5.2/MSFS2020 | Operating System - WIN 10 | Main Board - GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO | CPU - INTEL 9700k (5.0Ghz) | RAM - VIPER 32Gig DDR4 4000Mhz | Video Card - EVGA RTX3090 FTW3 ULTRA Monitor - DELL 38" ULTRAWIDE | Case - CORSAIR 750D FULL TOWER | CPU Cooling - CORSAIR H150i Elite Push/Pull | Power Supply - EVGA 1000 G+ 

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On 10/11/2021 at 6:39 PM, TurboKen said:

As I just recently found out V5 works very well at 30hz, and along with upgrading to V5 you will get a nice performance boost (as long as EA is turned off). Something to consider.

My 43" 4k TV is capable of 30hz but is there any way to get rid of the mouse lag , I just can't cope with it ?


9700k,1080Ti,maximus hero XI, ID cooling 240 AIO, Phanteks case, 32GB steel series ram, x3 Samsung Evo's 480 GB for scenery, intel 2TB nvme for P3D and addons /Scenery, Adata 480GB nvme for OS win11, 2 TB SSHD for everything else, 34" LG widescreen monitor for the sim(1080p) , second 24" monitor for charts/ youtube etc. Warthog Stick, X56 throttle and Logitech  pedals, Razer keyboard and mouse, oh and a usb fan to cool me down on approach !

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