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turner112

The question of ability to pilot heavy craft - 9/11 related

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Don't know if anyone's seen this, but I searched the forums and got no hits - http://www.physics911.net/sagadevan.htmAnyone with more "heavy" knowledge than me (and that would be most of you, probably) care to comment?.......Andrew

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It's more of the same conspiracy b.s. that disrespects those who died on 9/11, that's what the article is. I don't think it's worth someone coming in and refuting it, because the purpose of articles like the one you quote is to spin doubt and cause people to forget the evil behind 9/11. -JohnEdit: I should note the entire site seems dedicated to debunking 9/11... Just check the root link:http://www.physics911.net

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I take it with 100 grains of salt, John, but are you 100% sure that no legitimate questions are raised? There cannot possibly be a grain of truth? If you are 100% sure, how? I don

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Hi John - I'm not questioning from a conspiracy or non-conspiracy point of view - rather, without really knowing much about flying heavy aircraft beyond what I've experienced using flight simulator, I'm asking in order for someone who does have knowledge or experience with heavies to comment on the validity of the arguments in that article.[edit] Forgot to mention that I think the author has some misconceptions about simulators, and makes some fundamental logical errors throughout. That said, I still don't have enough (any!) real-world knowledge of flying a large aircraft.thanks,Andrew

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Andrew,I understand--I know you mean know ill will by posting the link. I just maintain that such sites, by trying to build "discussion" on the subject draw attention to themselves and their thinly veiled hatred of the U.S. government. Just like Iran's president likes to cause pain to members of the Jewish faith by suggesting the holocaust didn't happen, sites like this one are meant to cause pain and confusion--not to discuss anything aviation related. I believe anyone lending any effort to discuss the articles that are posted there is falling prey to the attention getting such agendas seek.-John

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"We were lied to about Iraq. I wish I could be 100% certain we were not lied to about 911."If you can't see this site for what it is, I can't comment. It's that we have such doubts, and that our government isn't perfect and doesn't always tell us the truth, that such sites flourish. IMHO it's a hate site veiled in psuedo-intellectual babble, not a site meant to raise legitimate questions. But I already see myself falling into the trap here, and won't discuss it further. Sorry to barge in.-John

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John,I understand and respect what are are saying. In fact, I'd say 99% of me shares your point of view. I'm not at all saying I buy into it - just that I'm not quite as sure of what I'm sure of any more.There's something in my gut these days telling me not to dismiss that 1% of doubt. Our future may depend of our asking more questions than we did a few years ago and making fewer asssumptions.

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Hi, Andrew. The thing I like best about message boards is how often my missives vanish into the ether .... I'll try again.No heavy time but with a few thousand hours in the 757 I can tell you it is easier to fly than a 172. Although it takes some practice, you can fly it visually; the picture in the article was taken from the jumpseat and is not an accurate representation. You can fly closer than 1/2 the wingspan from the ground if you trim to compensate for ground effect. And if the autopilot is engaged, you don't have to be Jimmy Doolittle to get the plane to a major city, especially on a clear day.For security reasons, I cannot share what we were told in our security briefings after 9/11, but I can tell you that no pilot I know who received those briefings had or has ANY doubt that Atta and his band were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. It is unfortunate that our government, for reasons that have more to do with human nature than party affiliation, chose to manage the flow of information regarding 9/11 in a way that has spawned the current crop of conspiracy theories, but the phenomena is not new. It predates the JFK assassination and I am grimly confident that it will outlast all of us. Keep in mind that while history may or may not repeat itself, human nature always does.And no matter what you read or hear, always remember to consider the source before buying into the message.jim

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This is total crap. There's just no other way around it.Just by pointing out the fact that they called the MCP altitude selector the "altimeter" shows that I already know more than these supposed experts about 757 and 767 cockpits. I've been in a real one for less than probably 30 seconds in my lifetime, and I'm 100% positive I could fly that aircraft. Maybe not execute a precision manual landing or something like that, but it does not take much skill to understand how headings work, or that if you type "JFK" into the top line of the FMC and press EXEC that the plane will go straight to New York.The stuff about IFR flying is so unbelieveably wrong too. That was a crystal clear morning and they'd have been able to see for a hundred miles at least from those cockpits.The Pentagon 757 crash was witnessed by numerous credible observers on the freeway outside the building who identified it as an American Airlines 757. I'm not even going to get into the type of craziness and number of people/things that would have to be involved for that to have been faked. The conclusion comes before the "evidence" for the people that come up with these theories. That's not science.Here is a page though that debunks the Pentagon theories - I hope you guys as simmers can see this is good evidence:http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.htmlI'm sorry but virtually no one outside the legitimate aviation industry knows what they're talking about when it comes to these things. How often have we all stood in wonder as the network news shows, with budgets in the millions of dollars, constantly get basic facts about aircraft-related incidents wrong? I just watched some hysterical reporters the other day act like a blown tire on an ERJ at KIAH was a life threatening event that was sure to end in certain death for everyone aboard. Those of us who knew better laughed as the plane perfectly held the centerline on landing and people walked off the plane just fine...

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Good stuff.Thanks, I haven't stumbled onto that one yet.They did spell diesel "desil", though, so I don't know if these guys are legit.;)Added: Oh, and I like this, too:"This thread has become the single-most popular piece of content on AboveTopSecret.com, sparking inspired debate and research throughout the Internet. However, the volume of material and issues on this subject (and in this thread alone) is overwhelming, making specific conclusions difficult, and evolution beyond the issue of what hit the Pentagon impossible."Well, then, you could register, and continue the debate...Andrew

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>>We were lied to about Iraq.>>Yes, if you think you were lied to about Iraq then you can>worry about 9/11 too. ;)>We were lied to about Iraq.By Saddam, by Chirac, by the UN, by Russia and China, by CNN, NBC, ABC, and the BBC, by a lot of people, but not by the US government (at least not after 9/11).

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>-John>>Edit: I should note the entire site seems dedicated to>debunking 9/11... Just check the root link:>>http://www.physics911.netYep...they claim that the towers and WTC 7 were purposely brought down. Some people need to get a grip.

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Hey Bob,That's a good one too!I've used Snopes heavily to let some associates know they're not going to be able to call an undercover cop to bust tailgaiters by dialing #77 and so forth, but never knew it went into this stuff too.Thanks.Andrew

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Yes, I think we were lied to about Iraq. And those of you who still try to deny that are those who close their eyes, cover their ears, and hum whenever someone changes the channel from FOX News. There

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>Yes, it is clear we were lied to about Iraq by the Bush>administration. No, we were not. Have you heard what CIA director James Woolsey was saying about Iraq? Theye were convinced about WMD in Iraq. James Woolsey was during Clinton's administration (which btw also believed in WMD) in Iraq. In fact pretty much all foreign intelligence services were also convinced about it. So what you are saying is pure rabbish repeated by leftist who can't seem to get their facts straight and don't know what word "lie" really means.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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>Yes, I think we were lied to about Iraq. And those of you who>still try to deny that are those who close their eyes, cover>their ears, and hum whenever someone changes the channel from>FOX News. There

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:-lol :-lol Doesn't your TV set get ANYTHING but two year old FOX News reruns, Michael? Maybe we can all pitch in and take up a collection for you.Leftist?? :-lol :-lol Michael, Michael, Michael....where do I begin?....

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>:-lol :-lol Doesn't your TV set get ANYTHING but two year old>FOX News reruns,I have to disappoint you. I never watch Fox news. I never watch any news on TV period. I use TV only for TCM, NG, CSPAN and occasionally Spike-TV channels for entertainment. Most of my news come from internet and newspapers (WSJ and Financial Times). But keep living in your dream world thinking that folks like me must be watching Fox news - one more illusion.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

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The JFK Assassination Conspiracy is a $100-200 million per year industry in the US.These sites are the same thing - fools seeking a way to make a buck off the tragedy and pain of other people. These are not skeptics or researchers or independent investigations.They are rip-off artists pure and simple.You can be certain they have found a way to live off donations, speeches, self-published books, etc. And all are hoping Oliver Stone will choose their theory or book to make a movie - which will be like winning the lottery.

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My Aunt was in Washington that day and yes it was a comercial jetliner skimming the ground that hit the Pentagon.I was in Washington several weeks before chatting with the Secret Service. Pilots at Queen City Airport were talking about arabs acting suspiciously at flight schools; and when I saw an article about a man arrested at the Canadian border with explosives who was originally thought to be involved in a plot to bomb the terminals at KSFO and KLAX. You can decide for yourself whether the destination of the aircraft is a coincidence; had the terminals not been evacuated they would have been packed- where do survivors go when a plane goes down? Even with no connection; it stands to reason the attack would be put on the fast track; security was being discussed already and might have tightened.The Secret Service dropped the ball; and lied to the 9/11 commission that there was nothing of signifigance in the Washington Interview tapes. I know that for a fact. But 9/11 was an evil act perpetuated by enemies of the U.S.; and there are so many "loose ends" in the article it is ludicrous.FLYing? It's cool. Trillions of birds and insects can't be wrong.

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Keep your political views to yourself, this forum is not the place for them.Arnold

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Arnold - The forum description is "This forum is for the discussion of real world aviation topics and any other topics not covered in other forums. Please make sure that your topic isn't covered in another forum before posting here."Note the reference to "any other topics".Andrew

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