SU8 and prop physics.

[Romeo_Tango 143]

Is it reasonable to expect updated prop physics from developers of our existing addon prop aircraft?,

will Asobo update all default prop aircraft?

[jcomm 5,945]

Good question, but the bulk of the prop physics will come only with or starting with SU9 I believe.

So far those that have it enabled (configured with some new parameters introduced in the aircraft files that can be read) show only minor effects that aren't even correct from a physics / aerodynamics standpoint, like prop feathering.

I believe that after the more sound / complete effects get available in the core sim these will easily propagate to the default prop aircraft as they said in one of the Q&A sessions.

Even in the default aircraft that are said to already work with the "new prop physics" there is still lack of consistent prop effects like "torque" / "slipstream-derived" ones, and for instance when you feather a prop there isn't consistent behaviour when flying in situations like sideslip, and so and so forth...

As MFS turns more towards "blade-element" based modeling it also will suffer more from incomplete specification of aircraft geometry, surface interaction, etc... Some aircraft peculiarities depend strongly on proper placing of the various elements that compose it, arranged in a 3d model sketch. Presently there are still many variations left out, like multiple wings and tails or asymmetric arrangements like in some real aircraft. I believe the fine tunning will always require "baked" / "parametrized" / "scripted as some like to put it" specification of some effects. The futue will tell...

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by jcomm

[orchestra_nl 940]

2 hours ago, Romeo_Tango said:

Is it reasonable to expect updated prop physics from developers of our existing addon prop aircraft?,

will Asobo update all default prop aircraft?

It depends on the amount of work involved and the dedication of the developer. The community might give it a go as well if the proper data is available of course.
Chances are Asobo will add it to at least some of their existing aircraft since they will want to advertise it.

We still need confirmation that the prop physics add to the realism factor instead of taking things away. That probably depends on the implementation for each aircraft 

[bobcat999 8,489]

Apparently, it is quite easy to add the new prop effects.  It is just some new parameters added to the aircraft config file (propeller aspect ratio etc.)
People do need to understand what they are doing when altering the parameters of course.

My question is - will most people actually be able to tell when an aircraft has the new prop physics or not? 

After Asobo fixed the early rollback issue, I quickly tried the default C150, and I am not sure I would have noticed if I hadn't known about it.  

Edited March 2, 2022 by bobcat999

[steve310002 1,198]

7 minutes ago, bobcat999 said:

After Asobo fixed the early rollback issue, I quickly tried the default C150, and I am not sure I would have noticed if I hadn't known about it. 

I think I may have noticed it in the King Air yesterday whilst trying to land with a crosswind. The aircraft felt more unstable than before and more sensitive to my input. I had to do 2 go arounds which I normally would not have had to do in the past. Might be complete placebo effect but I was wondering if the new prop effects might be the reason why (or just bad flying from me😂).

[leprechaunlive 1,859]

Not much doc at the moment, but our FDE guy is investigating, and that SHOULD make its way to our already released planes, and new ones.

Edited March 2, 2022 by leprechaunlive

[bobcat999 8,489]

1 hour ago, leprechaunlive said:

Not much doc at the moment, but our FDE guy is investigating, and that SHOULD make its way to our already released planes, and new ones.

Well that is good news.  There are a few out there that are starting to get to grips with it. 

The Cessna 152 improvement project is looking at incorporating it into their upcoming version 2, although they may wait until after SU9, as they seem to think there may be more to come, or some fine tuning by Asobo in SU9.
And the most recent Aerosoft Twin otter update apparently has had some work done on the new prop physics.
"Added: New propeller model for Sim Update 8".

CptMoustache has been experimenting with it on his alternative flight dynamics for some aircraft over at flightsim.to - this was for the Twin Otter >
"Version 10.69 PROP has been updated to work with the new prop physics as well as work with version 1.0.4.0 of the Twin Otter"

And you can bet the likes of GotGravel / Annov etc. will be looking at it.

Edited March 2, 2022 by bobcat999

[edpatino 1,969]

The Kodiak will be considered to be updated with the new prop system after some 1-2 more sim updates, and then decided if it'll be used in the future, according to what it was mentioned by SWS in his discord channel.

Edited March 2, 2022 by edpatino

[lwt1971 7,425]

Review on SU8 and prop physics from "Into the Blue Simulations" on YT:
 

 

[GolfUniformYankee 1]

How do we "enable" the new prop physics.  The release notes mentioned it being "optional" but I can't find any setting that would allow the new prop physics to be enabled.  I assume that, just like everything else in this sim we are supposed to "guess" how to do it, writing instructions is far too much effort for MS and Asobo.

[Romeo_Tango 143]

8 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Apparently, it is quite easy to add the new prop effects.  It is just some new parameters added to the aircraft config file (propeller aspect ratio etc.)
People do need to understand what they are doing when altering the parameters of course.

My question is - will most people actually be able to tell when an aircraft has the new prop physics or not? 

After Asobo fixed the early rollback issue, I quickly tried the default C150, and I am not sure I would have noticed if I hadn't known about it.  

I am puzzled: If the new system is so easily implemented, why have Asobo implemented it on only three of the default airplanes... as I understand it they even limited it to only one of the two C152's.

Guess I am expecting too much from 'MicroSobo'. Afterall, when I pre purchased, MSFS in 2020, I thought I was getting everything as advertised in all those 4k trailers. I didn't know I realize purchasing an early access product. I saw all those fancy flight dynamics trailers and drank the koolaid.

2022 and still waiting on all the fancy flight dynamics...but I get less CTDs now so there has been progress.......

[lwt1971 7,425]

32 minutes ago, GolfUniformYankee said:

How do we "enable" the new prop physics.  The release notes mentioned it being "optional" but I can't find any setting that would allow the new prop physics to be enabled.  I assume that, just like everything else in this sim we are supposed to "guess" how to do it, writing instructions is far too much effort for MS and Asobo.

Poorly worded by Asobo, but what they mean is that it's optional for 3rd party devs to add/enable on their aircrafts. With SU8 these default Asobo aircraft have it enabled : C150, C208, King Air 350i, so no end user action required to "enable" it.

From what I can see, various 3rd party devs are currently evaluating it, and apparently some free mods already have it added on? Apparently dev documentation/etc on this is coming soon from Asobo. Interesting discussion at Aerosoft and Mathis's comments: https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/170263-new-propeller-physics-coming-in-su8/#comment-1075168
 

Edited March 2, 2022 by lwt1971