1 minute ago, mSparks said:

XP11 was a plausible globe, we've been using it since 2017. That's why, in case you hadn't noticed, no one here was particularly excited for another sim with a plausible globe but inevitably borken physics, even if that alternative plausible globe comes with the odd splatter of super eye pleasing cartoonish graphics the kids love so much. 

XP12+ is intended to be a realistic globe, discussed in this interview from a couple of years ago iirc:

 

As usual, you are 100% right... And I can't wait for XP12 knowing that it will have great physics for sure but also the adult version of a realistic globe... 

2 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

As usual, you are 100% right... And I can't wait for XP12 knowing that it will have great physics for sure but also the adult version of a realistic globe... 

It's very hard to not come across like a child banging his knife and fork on the table screaming for food when communicating with LR.

Mostly because I feel like a child banging his knife and fork on the table screaming for food every time I get a glimpse of the new stuff we should be getting soon.

39 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

As for the footprint data in their engine (since it concerns the topic of this thread), the only way to know if it is Marketing or some machine learning was involved to augment the OSM + Bing data, is to go to remote areas where there is no Bing or OSM footprint available and see if there is any 3D infrastructure over the Bing building that has a matching footprint shape...

Of course there was a massive effort with machine learning. Every building of the whole globe is there. 1.5 billion buildings generated by AI. Not present in any other data source.

 

27 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Its a very interesting topic for sure, but the only innovative thing that MSFS brought to the table - via Asobo - is high fps/efficient orthogrammmetry. neat toy, that most everyone turns off.

You are confused about that. The photogrammetry is old fashioned tech. Google Earth level of tech. The innovation is the AI generation of a digital model of the earth in minutes. Btw. MS just recently invested 20 million more dollars to secure that technology for themselves for future usage, by investing heavily into blackshark.ai.

 

18 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Maybe you are right, some worldwide vector data out there that MS only can afford and that allowed Asobo to useto cover the whole planet with data driven plausible crisp and clear infrastructure.

He is very wrong about the topic discussed here.

9 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

The photogrammetry is old fashioned tech.

photogrammetry is old, yes.

high FPS photogrammetry.... care to link any other software that can do an entire city of photogrammetry at 60fps and _maybe_ I'll be convinced someone else did it first.

9 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

The innovation is the AI generation of a digital model of the earth in minutes.

not minutes.

Not New. National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) has been doing it publicly for some 20 years. State secret for probably 40 years before that.

https://mdl.library.utoronto.ca/collections/geospatial-data/vector-map-level-0-vmap0

https://www.mapability.com/info/vmap1_intro.php

 

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by mSparks

56 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

The AI part is better described here

Thank you for the link. That is much clearer now.

57 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

You will never get that data with the same fidelity with any other method than AI. Never.

Regarding the use of algorithms, this is probably correct.

Manually-entered OSM-type databases would certainly beat the AI...as long as we could get everybody to enter their home's info!

 

 

55 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

I am certainly not going to comment on the Friend statement

I wasn't asking for your opinion. I was letting you know that the younger generations probably read that as a confession! Or will at least meme you into internet fame.

1 minute ago, blingthinger said:

Manually-entered OSM-type databases would certainly beat the AI...as long as we could get everybody to enter their home's info!

And I think this is how the data there was filtered to give priority to OSM / Bing and if not available, then the machine learning data is used... I could be wrong but this is what I observed in the way it was deployed.

8 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

XP11 was a plausible globe

Plausible, but wrong. This e.g. is a plausible aircraft:

Fantasy Mig-21 For X-Plane (simflight.com)

A simulator should not be plausible (which is very subjective), but realistic. The screenshot from Alaska, looking like Savanna could by some low standards maybe have been considered as "plausible". But totally wrong, as in real world vast forests are there.

 

3 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

Plausible, but wrong. This e.g. is a plausible aircraft:

Fantasy Mig-21 For X-Plane (simflight.com)

A simulator should not be plausible (which is very subjective), but realistic. The screenshot from Alaska, looking like Savanna could by some low standards maybe have been considered as "plausible". But totally wrong, as in real world vast forests are there.

 

sigh

globe

i.e. all the VRPs are where they are supposed to be.

Something MSFS still hasn't achieved yet afaik. And due to the way the scenery works, there probably never will be a 

https://simheaven.com/

for it either.

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by mSparks

13 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Something MSFS still hasn't achieved yet afaik. And due to the way the scenery works, there probably never will be a 

https://simheaven.com/

for it either.

I will start by saying you are always right in everything... Even the out of this world arguments that deny basic fact in the software / company you hate...

But I create scenery since 1998 and I deployed OSM data like Simheaven did as well as used Simheaven packages in XP11...

Even if you keep only the facades buildings (no other 3D objects), the performance of XP11 will drop to radical levels even of solid PCs...

I am not going to comment on what MS failed or achieved... i do not promote their software but people who have no biased vision to any company or product know the answer...

32 minutes ago, mSparks said:

And due to the way the scenery works, there probably never will be a 

https://simheaven.com/

for it either.

Correct, even the cheapest version of the sim does has all the stuff from simheaven already out of the box.

And not only that, while on simheaven 223 million buildings sound pretty impressive, the blackshark AI globally is providing data for 6 times more buildings. So simheaven is good to make 1/6 of the world realistic, but for the remaining 5/6 (or 1200 milion) of buildings, simply nothing is shown. That stretches even the meaning of "plausible" for me...

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by mrueedi

11 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

 

Even if you keep only the facades buildings (no other 3D objects), the performance of XP11 will drop to radical levels even of solid PCs...

I've heard that a couple of times.

My XP11, on a 5900X, RTX3070, FC33 is never dropping below 60fps in VR.

So far XP12 seems to be .... something I cant really say positive or negative things about because NDA.

But I suppose I can say I don't really use XP11 anymore.... My XP11 experience is ruined.. 🤣

7 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

version of the sim does has all the stuff from simheaven already out of the box.

Well, last time we had this discussion MSFS were at least missing the VORs and NDBs.

has that been fixed in a sim update yet, or are such vital flight related objects still not something they consider to be important?

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by mSparks

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Well, last time we had this discussion MSFS were at least missing the VORs and NDBs.

There are MSFS VOR navigation tutorial videos one month after release in 2020, so what are you talking about?

7 minutes ago, mrueedi said:

There are MSFS VOR navigation tutorial videos one month after release in 2020, so what are you talking about?

no VFR navigation

e.g. the blue dotted circles in this typical VFR plan

\I

I'd love to see a screenshot of them if they really are in now, should look something like this for a VOR:

e.g.

 

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by mSparks

13 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I've heard that a couple of times.

My XP11, on a 5900X, RTX3070, FC33 is never dropping below 60fps in VR.

So far XP12 seems to be .... something I cant really say positive or negative things about because NDA.

Glad to hear that XP12 engine will digest a view packed with generated infrastructure from data because unfortunately XP11 struggled with.

For example in MS Sim:

• A view in LA (Photogrammetry / aka Blobs disabled)
• Objects, Graphic and Lod settings boosted to max possible levels
• Purely data driven infrastructure
  • With extruded infrastructure that has more 3D / details than XP facades

On my son's computer (that was the one I used for XP10.5 and 11) or my new Computer, the performance is really really good for a data streamed...

Again, I hope XP12's engine is reworked to digest such dense data!!

And I hope XP12 will expand the OSM data use to render islands like this one that I wanted to generate myself for XP11 using the OSM data + W2XP


 

4 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

Again, I hope XP12's engine is reworked to digest such dense data!!

Already does

Edited June 2, 20224 yr by mSparks