How much 'stuttering' do you experience in MSFS?

[Noel 4,565]

9 hours ago, Sunshine13 said:

Hopefully everybody is using a speicific drive for Fs 2020, and an M2 SSd

I always use one NVMe m.2 drive for OS & MSFS there is no need to separate them if you goal is sterling, stutter-free performance.  

[Noel 4,565]

9 hours ago, SyphiliticWeasel said:

I really need to set up a time to get with you on how you got yours to be stutter free. I have a pretty good PC and I still have the most random stutters and it’s rather annoying. I don’t care at all about FPS as I just want a smooth simulation.

However, it seems harder and harder to achieve. I am running a i9-10850K, Asus TUF OC 3080 TI, 32GB RAM. I cannot run the sim on ULTRA preset if I want to even attempt to use the Fenix. As soon as it’s on ULTRA in the Fenix I stutter just looking around in the cockpit with AI traffic completely off. 
 

I’m not positive if it’s because I’m running at 1440P. But it has definitely slowly been ruining my want to even continue to use MSFS. 

I hear you loud and clear!  I was lulled into the space you're sounding like you're in sort of putting up with 'okay' performance.  The ultra good news is:  it DOES NOT need to be this way if my experience is any proof!  The "harder and harder" to achieve is exactly where I had arrived slowly over several months.  I can say with certainly something is very wrong as we have essentiall the same system.  To be frank I ended up reinstalling Win 10 and MSFS which DID NOT get me to what I'm experiencing now but ruled out some things in the process.  

[Poppingcork 24]

9 hours ago, SyphiliticWeasel said:

I really need to set up a time to get with you on how you got yours to be stutter free. I have a pretty good PC and I still have the most random stutters and it’s rather annoying. I don’t care at all about FPS as I just want a smooth simulation.

However, it seems harder and harder to achieve. I am running a i9-10850K, Asus TUF OC 3080 TI, 32GB RAM. I cannot run the sim on ULTRA preset if I want to even attempt to use the Fenix. As soon as it’s on ULTRA in the Fenix I stutter just looking around in the cockpit with AI traffic completely off. 
 

I’m not positive if it’s because I’m running at 1440P. But it has definitely slowly been ruining my want to even continue to use MSFS. 

Ping me sometime and I'll see what I can do to help.  You should be getting the same performance as me.  

[Noel 4,565]

22 hours ago, FBW737 said:

I wonder if its the same 59% that only get 0-3 instances of stuttering also use "in sim  Vsync". I know it is in my case. That should be telling for everyone.

I can say with confidence in-sim Vsync is generally a very good thing (or Gsync if you have it) but will never guarantee 0-3 instances of stuttering as there are other potential causes I as discovered.  

[Sceadu 117]

Had a mostly stutter free experience untill SU10 which has introduced regular stutters/pauses in every flight

[Sonosusto 711]

I have outdated and limited hardware for flight simulation but SU10 did improve a few things. CTD's still happen on approach right after a crazy stutter. I moved TLOD and LOD to 90 (both) but most other things are maxed out or ultra. I am obviously CPU limited. All traffic, including FSLTL is set to 40 for IFR and VFR. This allows me to fly the PMDG 737, DC-6 and others without having to minimize other settings. I also have an app called intelligent standby list that helps with memory leaks but that could be snake oil. So, far....so good.

DX12 does nothing for me but using DX11 and DLSS does help. I keep everything at "quality."

[Cpt_Piett 4,871]

3 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

I also have an app called intelligent standby list that helps with memory leaks but that could be snake oil.

I'm using that one too. Most of the time I forget it as it's just there in the background doing its thing. 

[Sonosusto 711]

7 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I'm using that one too. Most of the time I forget it as it's just there in the background doing its thing. 

I assume its helping with CTD's but who knows

[dc3 2]

Despite having read countless posts on the "Stutter" issues (especially near airports) and attempting different (unsuccessful) settings I haven't seen any official word from Asobo. 

Have they acknowledged and confirmed that a fix is on the way with the next update?

[Noel 4,565]

On 10/31/2022 at 1:39 PM, Sceadu said:

Had a mostly stutter free experience untill SU10 which has introduced regular stutters/pauses in every flight

Me as well-but no more now ;o)

[RJC68 823]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

Me as well-but no more now ;o)

Hey Noel,

I am super happy for you that you are back to enjoying the Sim again. Have you thought about documenting what you found and did, maybe in the tips & tricks section? I thought you had documented your findings but I looked in the other thread and couldn't see it.

What you found may well help others in a similar situation 

Blue Skies My Friend,

[Sceadu 117]

On 11/2/2022 at 3:51 PM, Noel said:

Me as well-but no more now ;o)

I presume because you are now using SU11 Beta?

[Bobsk8 12,918]

Every once  in awhile on approach, like under 1500 AGL, it turns into a slide show for a few seconds. I just had that at KSAN rwy 27. Don's know if it is a server problem, or something with the airport. Makes flaring a gamble.  

[Noel 4,565]

9 hours ago, Sceadu said:

I presume because you are now using SU11 Beta?

On 11/2/2022 at 1:21 PM, RJC68 said:

Have you thought about documenting what you found and did, maybe in the tips & tricks section?

Nope I was not in the beta this time.  It's just a bunch of troubleshooting and examining a few other methods to try to maximize smoothness that got me here.  I spent a lot of time and most of it was proving what made no difference, and a few things that seemed to make a big difference.  Who knows SU11 may well alter my current good fortune!  I've always had very decent mostly stutter-free animation until a few months ago but it's at a whole new level now.  It’s hard to explain but there is just complete freedom from hesitation more than ever, and this at *only* 30 frames per second.  This approach has one modest side effect which I can ignore because the increase in fluidity is worth it.  Of note:  improvements in stutter elimination and smooth animation applied nearly equally to both DX11 and DX12, though there may be a slight edge in DX12 for me, but it’s subtle at best.  I noticed in an identical setting total memory in use went up by 20% in both System RAM and VRAM in DX12 over DX11, FWIW.
 

Here is a summary of my findings after a new Win install plus MSFS and its addons.  It's long and is known by many I'm sure but might help some, and covers where I went in trying to restore most fluid and stutter-free animation.  I did not have this after these fresh installs and had picked up some new hard pauses which I never had in the prior install.  I just had slow development of stuttering in various forms and types over the past several months leading up to a new clean install and that new install did not yield smooth, stutter-free performance.   

Here are my system configuration details beyond what’s in my sig:

• Windows 10, fully updated
• NV GPU driver is maybe one back—the Game Ready Driver that followed the Studio driver
  • NV Control Panel:
    • Low Latency Mode:  Ultra
•  MSFS in SU10, all Ultra, 16x/8x8, O-LOD 200, T-LOD 100-150 depending on plane and flight plan.
• Render Scaling, when different from 100, causes a recurrent subtle shimmy for lack of a better word, so it stays at 100 now.  I used to routinely run it at 120 or 130 but again, it introduces an odd recurrent shimmy/shudder.
• I run PACX, A Pilot’s Life, Spotify, and LiveATC for all flights, and Realtime Online Traffic w/ Simple Traffic

NOTE:  stuttering that is a direct result of inability to maintain a minimum frame rate due to overload of the CPU Main Thread, and/or overload of the GPU, when frame rate is locked is it’s own issue separate from the following findings which are about other sources of stuttering.

• Make sure Win Desktop background if set to Slideshow as mine was that you change the frequency to change picture Every 1 Day.  I inadvertently left it at every 1 minute after a fresh install and this causes a significant hard pause during flight every 60 sec or so and I had no idea where it came from for quite a while!
• Found a guide to disable any services in Windows I wasn't using that were safe to disable.  I ended up stopping about 11 from starting.  Probably makes no difference, esp if using Process Lasso which I wasn’t using when I took this step, but if done correctly won't cause any harm either.
• Disabling Windows Defender, and turning off Realtime Virus and Threat Protection had no effect on pauses (long stutters) or short stutters so is left on their default settings.
• I have OS, MSFS, and all other software on one 2TB m.2 NVMe drive so my contention is there is no need to split OS and simulator as there may have been in past times, in order to try to improve fluidity, or reduce stuttering if that is the rationale for splitting the installation.
• HAGS ON showed a minor increase in stuttering in DX 12 is all I tested on, so I switched it back to OFF.
• Running MSI Afterburner OSD w/ RTSS has no impact on stuttering, that is running it while flying.
• GeForce Experience install w/ use of Filters has no impact whatsoever on stuttering while flying—so there is no good reason not to install to use if you need to, at least in terms of stuttering.

I use Process Lasso in the following way.  The basic goal is to offload all other processes possible from MSFS' Main Thread--Core7 on my 9900K  

NOTE:  PL must be launched AFTER getting MSFS running as it prevents MSFS from initializing as I have it setup.

• Leave MSFS on all cores (or performance cores, etc).  For me that would be 0-7.
• Change MSFS' priority to High or Above Normal
• Change MSFS' I/O priority to High
• Change MSFS' Application Profile to High Performance (didn't try their other higher levels)
• Take all other processes off your Main Thread core, so they now all use only Core0 thru Core6 in the case of my 8-core 9900K.
• After getting MSFS fully running, and other apps you will run alongside, launch Process Lasso.
• After PL has fully initialized and so has set all the affinities/priorities/power, then Terminate PL:  all its changes are retained until reboot, but it is now fully closed including a couple of services it runs.

 I've noticed a couple of nice changes from using Process Lasso:

• I no longer get the subtle but annoying stutter associated with and when default ATC talks and logs the conversation in the ATC window.  Almost always the stutter came right after the mic scratch sound one hears when turning on and off a mic.  Also, when LiveATC chatter executes--this happens only occasionally but I've noticed it enough to conclude it creates an occasional brief stutter—and now those never happen.   It may have been audiodg.exe or other sound related processes touched by offloading them from the Main Thread core.  All I know is I've had this ATC related stutter since Day 1, briefly improved by the ATC Stutter Fix which stopped working a few updates back.  But I liked to have all lines in the ATC log to review and that fix killed all but the last 4 lines of ATC text, so you lost the full log.
• I no longer get a little graphical hitch that comes if I edit a picture in Paint.net while flying.   Previously I would get a big stutter as soon as I hit the execute on an edit, while flying.  I bring this example up only to help show isolation from the Main Thread does have a desirable impact and may affect other processes as well that are less obvious.

I’m a long time believer in VSync in-sim in both P3D and in MSFS.  I don’t have a Gsync display and my screen does 60Hz tops so this is my best option for smooth stutter-free animation.  Here’s what I learned in trying different forms of frame rate lock—all tried as mutually exclusive locks.

In-sim VSync – this is my 3^rd choice now!

• Eliminates screen tear
• In DX-12 the line in the upper part of the Dev Mode OSD is full of vertical lines in random chaotic fashion.  With DX-11 this largely goes away, FWIW.
• When monitoring CPU load via MSI Afterburner levels will always be quite high—80% to 98% or so.  Stutters still happen, though less than in some other locking technologies.

RTSS Scanline Sync  (x/2, -1; In)

• Screen tearing in several areas in mid screen
• Not as smooth as In-sim VSync in terms of odd random and some evenly spaced stutters

RTSS Framerate Lock only, w/ Front Edge Sync -- this is my 2nd choice now!

• This is BY FAR the smoothest, least stutter-prone option of all.  Never had tried this over Async mode.
• CPU load always much lower via MSI AB, and this is true in DX11 and DX12.
• You will see a tearline that will move up the screen slowly as you pan back and forth.  I believe this is unavoidable in this mode.  Even so, this is my preferred mode now as it truly offers a level of hesitation-free animation I’ve never seen quite this good previously.  And as mentioned it’s good in both DX11 and DX12.  The tearline is somewhat subtle but you’ll notice it.  Because it migrates whether you see it or not during a pan or what have you depends on where you are looking and where it displays, IOW you often won't notice it at all, at least that is my experience.  3440x1440 34” curved display.
  
  If the tearline is a no-go for you then it's In-Sim Vsync as the next best option of the methods tested.  I have not tried NVCP Vsync so will do that tomorrow and compare.

NV Control Panel Maximum Frame Rate

• Similarly fluid to RTSS Framerate Lock only, w/ Front Edge Sync but screen tearing much worse, in several lines, whereas only one tearline w/ RTSS Framerate Lock only w/ FES.

NV Control Panel Adaptive Vsync 1/2 refresh rate --  this may be #1 and w/o tearline.

• When monitoring CPU load via MSI Afterburner levels will always be quite high compared to RTSS Framerate Lock Only w/ Front Edge Sync
• I will do a gate to gate test tomorrow but it looks hopeful.

Miscellany

• I found both Seasons products adversely affected smoothness in substantial ways on my system, so for the moment I will live w/o them in the hopes that a new CPU gets around this, but I'm also not 100% certain it will since I see this w/o strong evidence of overload of the main thread and certainly not the GPU.

Cheers & Happy Flying

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Noel

[Sonosusto 711]

6 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Every once  in awhile on approach, like under 1500 AGL, it turns into a slide show for a few seconds. I just had that at KSAN rwy 27. Don's know if it is a server problem, or something with the airport. Makes flaring a gamble.  

YES!

Regardless of plane, freeware/payware (scenery or plane) and it can happen at this time. Sometimes it happens after established. I have tried this with all traffic turned off and its still happens.

Maybe it is a server issue?