Cockpit exposure.

[anitelite 41]

i keep following this thread hoping some "real" fix will show up.  So far, all i see are suggested tweaks and video card adjustments.  I like Xplane a lot.  I have all the versions from 9 and up.  And i keep buying xplane because i like to see two real viable competitors in the flight sim arena for us armchair guys.  But this unusually dark cockpit thing is going to be a deal breaker for me going forward if laminar doesn't acknowledge it and provide a better solution.  The <other> sim may be too bright for purists, but I've flown in multiple aircraft in real weather conditions night and day and xplane12 is just too dark.

[SAS443 1,728]

6 minutes ago, anitelite said:

The <other> sim may be too bright for purists, but I've flown in multiple aircraft in real weather conditions night and day and xplane12 is just too dark.

You are not alone 🙂 several pilots believes it's too pronounced. Included a prolific streamer. But what does that guy know anyway... 🤡

 

 

 

[ThrottleUp 630]

I have stopped using XP12 (reluctantly) because of this issue. Its a cartoon darkening effect thats spoiling the experience for me. As others have pointed out even real world airline pilots have chipped in saying its not like that IRL on the flight deck - like flightdeck2sim.

The fact that Laminar are working on fixing it shows that its a bloop bloop and it needs to go. I read that this will NOT be dealt with in the next update but we can hope it comes this year.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,882]

44 minutes ago, anitelite said:

but I've flown in multiple aircraft in real weather conditions night and day and xplane12 is just too dark

There are many posters on this thread that will not acknowledge what the problem is - we are viewing the world through a low dynamic range monitor, not high dynamic range real eyes.  Two ways to deal with this.

1.  Spread the available light and contrast over the whole scene.  Many favour this option to simulate what their real eyes would see in the real world.
2.  Use the available dynamic range/brightness/contrast where the simulated eye is actually looking.

For me, realism is maximising dynamic range because the real world is bright.  I have an HDR monitor to help with this. If my simulated eyes are looking outside, I want most of the available dynamic range used to create a realistic outside view - I'm looking outside, so I don't feel the need for a bright panel.  When my head lowers, the panel brightens. I don't care that the outside view is somewhat blown out, because I'm looking inside.  I use an eye tracker so I can glance inside/outside as required, so I do not suffer dark panels.  It should be noted that addon developers have some input in how their panels are displayed.

For others, realism is seeing in the sim exactly what their real eyes would see in the real world, so they would prefer option 1.  Any 'HDR' effect produced by spreading the available dynamic range over the whole scene is less important to them.  I would find this solution less realistic to the real world.

Nobody is wrong, but I'm glad LR have chosen the option they have. 

Edited July 15, 2023 by MrBitstFlyer

[MrBitstFlyer 3,882]

2 minutes ago, ThrottleUp said:

he fact that Laminar are working on fixing it shows that its a bloop bloop and it needs to go

I rather think LR are looking at options, but I doubt they will ruin the excellent lighting model they have.

[Murmur 3,944]

46 minutes ago, anitelite said:

i keep following this thread hoping some "real" fix will show up.

Try changing the dataref "autoexposure/null_lo" from default "1" to "-0.5". Not perfect, but might improve things a bit, while LR works on the issue.

 

 

 

 

[MrBitstFlyer 3,882]

36 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Try changing the dataref "autoexposure/null_lo" from default "1" to "-0.5". Not perfect, but might improve things a bit, while LR works on the issue.

This is what worries me - the right half of the image has sacrificed outside contrast for a slightly brighter panel.  The buildings look like they are in mist and the ground and clouds have lost shadows. 

[Murmur 3,944]

11 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

This is what worries me - the right half of the image has sacrificed outside contrast for a slightly brighter panel.  The buildings look like they are in mist and the ground and clouds have lost shadows. 

As I said, not perfect because it's just a workaround and not say a local tone mapping, which should not have those side effects. But some people might still find that better than default.

[Franz007 505]

I keep not understanding why as it seems only part of users are experiencing this and others don’t…

[Murmur 3,944]

22 minutes ago, Franz007 said:

I keep not understanding why as it seems only part of users are experiencing this and others don’t…

There's an element of subjectivity and the different interpretation of realism when having to deal with compromises. It's like asking different simmers what 2D FOV is the most realistic one: some might say it's a narrow one because it's geometrically correct compared to RL, others might say it's a wide one because it allows peripheral vision as in RL.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,882]

1 hour ago, Franz007 said:

I keep not understanding why as it seems only part of users are experiencing this and others don’t…

Many addons do not display dark panels at all - I guess the addon developer has better utilised what LR has given them.  Other users do not use eye/head trackers and position their view where too much light enters the cockpit, thus darkening the panel.  Some use a massive field of view, even though they are viewing the simulated world through a small viewport.  Some don't calibrate their monitors or manually play with brightness/contrast controls. So many variables leads to different levels of 'dark cockpits'.

If LR can use local contrast succesfully, then great. However, trying to view the real world through a monitor is a challenge.  I like the route LR has taken and are willing to make some changes in how I view the world - many aren't.

For me, dark panels don't really exist to the extent the sim experience is spoiled.

Edited July 15, 2023 by MrBitstFlyer

[mSparks 2,090]

4 hours ago, Murmur said:

Try changing the dataref "autoexposure/null_lo" from default "1" to "-0.5". Not perfect, but might improve things a bit, while LR works on the issue.

 

 

 

 

I would not say this shows the full story, because there is nothing really wrong or problematic on the left image, in fact as mbf points out if anything the right image has lost far more detail outside than it gained in the cockpit.

the view to test this on is facing directly at an ~8.30am sun, when outside is as bright as it can get and the cockpit panel is 100% engulfed in shadow. with the panel backlighting turned on of course.

[Murmur 3,944]

28 minutes ago, mSparks said:

I would not say this shows the full story, because there is nothing really wrong or problematic on the left image, in fact as mbf points out if anything the right image has lost far more detail outside than it gained in the cockpit.

Yeah, as I said it's just a limited workaround which some people (me included) prefer to default. Only a direct intervention by LR will really improve things (for us).

Edited July 15, 2023 by Murmur

[bogdansrb 230]

15 hours ago, SAS443 said:

You are not alone 🙂 several pilots believes it's too pronounced. Included a prolific streamer. But what does that guy know anyway... 🤡

Next thing we find out is that the real world is also pixelated and lights are shimmering all over the place 😂

[mSparks 2,090]

34 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

Next thing we find out is that the real world is also pixelated and lights are shimmering all over the place 😂

Not seen anyone with Apple hardware make these complaints.

Strange that....

Its almost like its exclusively a windows problem.

(joking, those are already fixed for 12.06 afaict, but the fix broke other things)

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by mSparks