Well, fwiw, I flew a dozen circuits with both the standard and 530/430 variants, and to my mind they behave very differently in the approach. At 66% payload (the default for both planes) I can easily get the 530/430 variant stopped in around 300m (1000'), whereas I consistently needed 1000m (3000') for the standard variant. The standard variant also has a tendency to accelerate even with full flaps at idle if I steepen my approach angle just a little, whereas I can easily manage the rate of descend with the throttle in the 530/430.

55 minutes ago, sd_flyer said:

Oh more than 1 G ? There are plenty of those!

Here another. Departure cross-control stall/density altitude

https://www.youtube.com/live/4_7pjDzPfG0?feature=share

 

The airplane has amazing controllability - display below. Except for Western trained pilot it is "more left rudder" and in case of Antonov more left. I suspect accident in Wilton, CA was muscle memory of right rudder. 

 

Cool videos, but I'm not understanding the point you're making with them?  Are you suggesting it IS impossible to stall this airplane?  

Edit:. I watched the beginning of the first video but didn't see the accident until I went back and re-watched the whole thing.  That doesn't actually look like a stall to me; just a loss of SA on where the ground was.  Happens in low altitude acro; it's why pilots here need low-alt waivers for this kind of thing.  Really a shame...

But ..Everything we can see here shows a very draggy airframe, which was the original point.  There should be zero challenges slowing her down.  👍

Edited March 24, 20233 yr by Stearmandriver

28 minutes ago, Stearmandriver said:

Cool videos, but I'm not understanding the point you're making with them?  Are you suggesting it IS impossible to stall this airplane?  

Edit:. I watched the beginning of the first video but didn't see the accident until I went back and re-watched the whole thing.  That doesn't actually look like a stall to me; just a loss of SA on where the ground was.  Happens in low altitude acro; it's why pilots here need low-alt waivers for this kind of thing.  Really a shame...

But ..Everything we can see here shows a very draggy airframe, which was the original point.  There should be zero challenges slowing her down.  👍

Yes it is impossible completely stall Antonov 2 in 1G coordinated stall. Everything else like  CG out of range, accelerated, cross control and other of way to stall of course you can. I hope we can all agree that accelerated,  cross control, runway trim stall speeds are not marked on ASI ! 🙂

8 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

You would think so yes ...  but real life videos show the thing pottering along on longish approaches at insanely low speed and it does in fact land OK if you come in at that insanely low speed and where you think you could walk faster and just casually plop yourself down pretty much on the threshold.

I am not yet convinced there is a bug.  maybe there is a bug, but just maybe 4 x split flaps (slpit flaps give more lift and less drag) , flaperons and slats add up to a slightly unusual low speed flight model.

An-2 doesnt have split flaps.

 

9 hours ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

 

 

Have you compared both Standard and Garmin equipped versions?, I get the feeling some are commenting without actually testing both

Edited March 24, 20233 yr by Pathfinder633
double post

After the initial delight of having my Anuschka back, I have now spent some time with her in the pattern.  There is indeed something wrong with the way she bleeds energy when pulling power.  The Shetsov is the only propulsive motive- the sheer flat plate drag of two wings, a large blunt nose and flying wires should arrest most forward motion without thrust.  Indeed, part of her charm used to be the way you could come in high, hang the laundry out to dry and walk her down the Otis Elevator shaft with throttle- superb.

At the moment, she does not exhibit that iconic behavior.  She is lovely in the air Andy- and I would not wait.  I have written Alex asking him to check this- as his flight model that I am so familiar with- did NOT have this issue.  Something got lost in translation.  I am sure that and small things like some of the sounds and the upside down mirror image will get sorted soon.  Meanwhile- she has may delights in store for the new Anushka pilot.  Just keep away from PNG and short strips with tight approaches.  

C

12 hours ago, gunther said:

Well, fwiw, I flew a dozen circuits with both the standard and 530/430 variants, and to my mind they behave very differently in the approach. At 66% payload (the default for both planes) I can easily get the 530/430 variant stopped in around 300m (1000'), whereas I consistently needed 1000m (3000') for the standard variant. The standard variant also has a tendency to accelerate even with full flaps at idle if I steepen my approach angle just a little, whereas I can easily manage the rate of descend with the throttle in the 530/430.

That's what I've found too - the 530/430 is much easier to land, a much shorter roll out, and, I believe, less tendency to nose-over when braking. With the standard version, I'm delicately balancing the aircraft in the roll out, trying to stop it nosing over with the brakes, and at the same time trying to stop it becoming airborne again with the stick back. Something is amiss.

The FDE was given to MS a long time ago, and AM is seeing these issues in the release version as well. There have been MANY sim changes since it was last tailored to the sim. Hoping MS/Asobo will work towards having a hotfix for us in the near future. They were pretty good about that with the A310 so I am hopeful.

Please voice your concerted concerns at the official forum- https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/famous-flyer-v-antonov-an-2/582563/196

Thank-you!

C

Edited March 24, 20233 yr by cavaricooper

On 3/23/2023 at 9:53 PM, sd_flyer said:

I hope we can all agree that accelerated,  cross control, runway trim stall speeds are not marked on ASI ! 🙂

Well yes, but since airspeed is not the reason a wing stalls, there's also no reason why they should.

I hope we can agree that an AN-2 can most definitely be stalled - intentionally or inadvertently.  Since almost no stall / departure accidents occur under 1g, I'm not sure why it's relevant to keep insisting the plane can't be stalled under 1g (which I still bet it can, given the correct entry attitude 😉.  )

Edited March 25, 20233 yr by Stearmandriver

A flight model mod was just released that apparently increases drag

I’d be curious to see what the folks in this thread discussing the flight characteristics think of the mod

https://flightsim.to/file/52184/atsimulations-microsoft-an-2-ap-flight-model-mod

The GPS version will suffice for me, until the official hotfix… which hopefully Asobo will release SOON.

The mod seems to work nicely, and will do me until the proper fix. Thanks for letting us know @regis9 What a lovely aircraft this AN-2 is. 🙂

Edited March 25, 20233 yr by Paul K

9 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Well yes, but since airspeed is not the reason a wing stalls, there's also no reason why they should.

I hope we can agree that an AN-2 can most definitely be stalled - intentionally or inadvertently.  Since almost no stall / departure accidents occur under 1g, I'm not sure why it's relevant to keep insisting the plane can't be stalled under 1g (which I still bet it can, given the correct entry attitude 😉.  )

It is relevant because all my students stall at 1G before round up LOL

The mod makes a very noticeable difference, (Been asked before but how on earth does Asobo miss stuff like this?)

Thanks for posting @regis9

Edited March 25, 20233 yr by Pathfinder633

My pleasure, time to try it out myself!