What Have You Done Asobo?

[Soulflight 97]

5 hours ago, David Mills said:

People who refuse to adopt MSFS "because it may someday be discontinued" are like a man who won't buy an iPhone 14 in 2023 because Apple no longer supports the iPhone 4 he bought back in 2010. The man reasons that today's iPhone 14 will someday be discontinued by Apple as well -- and that's certainly true. So he ends up stuck with an antiquated flip phone, which provides far less customer support than the new iPhone 14 he refuses to buy because he fears losing customer support. As Carl Sagan used to say, "Given enough time, everything in the universe changes." The best we can do is to enjoy the present moment on the best-available flight simulator: MSFS and, soon, MSFS2024.

Yet another "just adapt to changes" thread. I am not sure many people here understand why the MS2024 announcement and the changed made to FS2020 upset people. On a moderate level, I am one of them too. My previous flight sim setup was FSX, i dumped it completely from my hard drive about 2 years ago when i moved to MSFS. FSX was released the way it is, it worked, even though I remember we spent years of tweaking because it was demanding. After a while, MS released TWO service packs that technically improved things, and one addon that gave us some default aircraft.

After SP2/Acceleration it was by no means a perfect sim by itself, but it wasnt missing any key features, it felt complete. Everything else could be added by third party products because the system was pretty open. The flight sim business provided us with new sims simply because FSX was outdated on the technical side. Fine by me. So lets dump the iphone 4 for a newer model to move on.

MSFS however upset basically everyone at the time of its release. Visuals were stunning on screenshots and videos, but as soon as you took a closer look, people notice errors like baked in clouds and sumerged ships in the satellite image. ATC and AI traffic were actually a step back from what we had with the corresponding Addons in FSX, and after 2 years 3rd party AI program devs are still dealing with issues and workarounds because many things "require a fix on asobos side" (for example the weird takeoff and landing behaviour of AI aircraft). Same with clouds and weather, we were shown nice looking rain, thunderstorms and even cirrus clouds in the promo videos. The latter two I have seen absolutely 0 times in a convincing way in 2 years of MSFS usage. Clouds either look 2-dimensional or like ash dirt (IL-2 Sturmovik does a better job here after some updates). Realistic atmospheric behavior, which is essential to give a feeling of "moving through the air" is mostly absent. After 1,5 years they finally added some turbulence which feels static and on/off. No turbulent clouds, no microbursts...i had all that in my FSX days, with archaic visuals to be fair. Again, since release Asobo is reluctant to allow 3rd party weather apps to fix what they dont want to fix. I cought myself getting bored of flying and instead checking online everyday waiting for "Sim Update XY: atmosphere and weather". Instead, FS2024 got announced for "next year". Meaning IF all those things are getting adressed -i bought FS2020 for already- i will have to wait a year and buy a new sim.

MSFS2020 was a public beta. Change my mind.

So, imagine you dump your iphone 4 you customized with all your apps for an iphone 14, which has shiny flashy graphics and a nice camera. But it doesnt allow you to install whatsapp on it, forcing you to live with apples own provided messenger program. That one lacks crucial features that apple first promised to fix with updates, but later tells you you have to buy the iphone 15 to get them. Maybe. Can this announcement be trusted?

[turbomax 3,290]

but ... but ...

"MSFS isn't "there" yet when it comes to flight model,"

as UrgentSiesta is telling us and getting lots of applause over at the ex-plane forum. Just when Matt Nischan from WorkingTitle published an overwhelming list of flight model related enhancements that support his argument. I was beginning to believe in the MSFS flight model. And now this. I am devastated. "what have you done Asobo" ? And here, poor fool! with all my lore. I stand, no wiser than before (Dr. Faustus)

Edited June 29, 2023 by turbomax

[ECONINO 15]

... is a pity, but Asobo is totally slept about msfs 2020 and in his dream is only one subject "msfs 2024" ...   

Edited June 29, 2023 by ECONINO

[Dominique_K 10,151]

20 minutes ago, ECONINO said:

... is a pity, but Asobo is totally slept about msfs 2020 and in his dream is only one subject "msfs 2024" ...   

If anybody has been sleeping the whole time since the release, that would be you not Asobo 🤣

[ECONINO 15]

3 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

If anybody has been sleeping the whole time since the release, that would be you not Asobo 🤣

.... thanks Dominique ! ... I'll try to wake up (may be like that I see a better situation)

Cheers  

[Dominique_K 10,151]

16 minutes ago, ECONINO said:

.... thanks Dominique ! ... I'll try to wake up (may be like that I see a better situation)

Cheers  

Once awake, you will be amazed to see 13 World updates, 12 Simulation updates, 2 AAU, 2 City Updates and a couple of very decent freebies in less than 3 years ! 

Is everything perfect ?  If you were in my room, you would see smoke coming out of my ears because I am upset to see that the TBM variables still don't match the turboprop ones. Binding my Warthog is a nightmare. It shouldn't be. I have said several times how unhappy I am to see the offline textures too often because Bing had no sat imagery for some places etc. I am not in VR but I understand my fellow VR simmers who have their own complaints.

But, lets look at the big picture,  all in all, I've never seen such a commitment to a game ever. 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Dominique_K

[Abriael 952]

1 hour ago, Soulflight said:

MSFS however upset basically everyone at the time of its release. 

Imagine being so absolutely out of touch with any sort of reality that one really thinks what I quoted.

Here's a reality check. Software that "upsets" basically everyone at release flops and never recovers. And it doesn't get sequels.

It doesn't become the most successful flight simulator of all time, which MSFS objectively is, and by a massive margin. 

Those who were "upset" were and are a massively outnumbered but vocal minority while the overwhelming majority was and is having a lot of fun.

Not only is MSFS the most successful flight simulator of all time, but also the most adopted by third party developers, by far. 

It's funny that once in a while we get someone who engages in historical revisionism trying to allege that the chronic malcontents are or ever were more than an insufferable but tiny part of the community. 

[MarcG 3,021]

3 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

But, lets look at the big picture,  all in all, I've never seen such a commitment to a game ever. 

 

Don't take this the wrong way but I've noticed flight simmers just "play" flight Sims and don't see the gaming world beyond that, I've seen comments like this quite often when the actual truth is there's loads of software gaming/simulation developers constantly pumping out updates (both free and paid) over many years of support.

What is see with MS/Asobo is nothing new, Devs elsewhere have been doing it for literally decades (see the Car Racing Sim scene for a perfect example).

[Rimshot 1,157]

1 hour ago, Soulflight said:

MSFS2020 was a public beta. Change my mind

It was not. Did I succeed?

[Abriael 952]

7 minutes ago, MarcG said:

 

What is see with MS/Asobo is nothing new, Devs elsewhere have been doing it for literally decades (see the Car Racing Sim scene for a perfect example).

As someone who works and has worked in the gaming industry for more than two decades, this is entirely false.

Developers that provide updates AND content at pace and scope comparable to what Microsoft does with MSFS mostly at no additional cost for the user are absolutely a rarity.

99 percent of the developers out there don't come even close to 3 year of content support and what they do provide, they monetize much more aggressively.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Abriael

[Dominique_K 10,151]

10 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Don't take this the wrong way but I've noticed flight simmers just "play" flight Sims and don't see the gaming world beyond that, I've seen comments like this quite often when the actual truth is there's loads of software gaming/simulation developers constantly pumping out updates (both free and paid) over many years of support.

What is see with MS/Asobo is nothing new, Devs elsewhere have been doing it for literally decades (see the Car Racing Sim scene for a perfect example).

You are right, my way of saying it was maybe excessive, there are other developers doing the same but, in my experience they are rare for the games I play. The only one coming to my mind right now is a small Canadian outfit, Hinterland Studios, which released a wonderful survival game called The Long Dark.

Edited June 29, 2023 by Dominique_K

[MarcG 3,021]

3 minutes ago, Abriael said:

As someone who works and has worked in the gaming industry for more than two decades, this is entirely false.

Developers that provide updates AND content at pace and scope comparable to what Microsoft does with MSFS mostly at no additional cost for the user are absolutely a rarity.

 

Thank you for proving my point, just off the top of my head: iRacing, Reiza, Studio397, Frontier, multiple MMORPG developers....

Nothing "entirely false" at all, open your eyes beyond flight Sims.

[MarcG 3,021]

2 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

You are right, my way of saying it was excessive, there are other developers doing the same but, in my experience they are rare for the games I play. The only one coming to my mind right now is a small Canadian outfit, Hinterland Studios, which released a wonderful survival game called The Long Dark.

Yes there's another one, I have played that too 😊

[Fiorentoni 4,265]

17 minutes ago, Abriael said:

Software that "upsets" basically everyone at release flops and never recovers.

"No man's sky" entered the chat.

[Tva 22]

23 minutes ago, MarcG said:

Thank you for proving my point, just off the top of my head: iRacing, Reiza, Studio397, Frontier, multiple MMORPG developers....

Nothing "entirely false" at all, open your eyes beyond flight Sims.

Is the same iracing that you have to pay subscription every month and on top of that buy cars and circuits? Is it even comparable that with free updates?