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Autogen question

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Ok so it's been a LONG time since I even played FSX (I bought it first day it came out). To be quite honest I wasn't very impressed with the flat ugly graphics of the ground and how autogen just poked out at it. It's ok from high up but when flying at low level it was just ugly and almost takes away from altitude perception in my opinion. Everybody's different and believe me I am not bashing the game. I just got back into the whole flight sim after flying back from Tampa and I really want to get back into it. My main question is what causes this ugly looking ground scenery if you will. The very flat ground with horrible resolution and then trees and buildings just placed right on it. There is no blending effect at all. Is it the fact that the scenery is 2d and the autogen is the 3d factor?? Can anyone explain to a newbie like myself what really autogen is all about and what it's based on. I am assuming its based on the landclass and some cities like NY and other popular areas are going to have certain popular things in them (statue of liberty, empire state building, popular bridges etc etc). My personal favorite part of flying isn't cruising at 35000 feet but rather taking off and landing (100 to say 3000 feet) where you can really spot things on the ground with high detail.I guess what I am looking for is better autogen?? If you guys don't know what I mean by the flat ugly low resolution ground I will try to post a pic.

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In most cases, it's the high resolution of FSX's ground textures that I DO prefer...Seems like your CPU is displaying something different that mine. In fact, the resolution of the city/mountain scapes is so clear, it seems to add to the sense of 3D perception.As to autogen, I usually leave it off. It seems to detract from those photo-looking high res textures that I mentioned. However, I wouldn't mine some trees that fade out above 2000' agl; but can always do without the cartoon like autogen subdivsions. I still have a lot of city and airport buildings though, because of the "global" setting.L.Adamson

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Looks a lot like FS9, if not exactly like it. For me, it's just a matter of getting used to it. I'm sure you could always get better texture replacements, but they never look right close up IMO, and night time is hard to render in the sense that the lights and objects are difficult to render without slowing you to a crawl.

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The thing is though that it's going to be a long time before you get worldwide urban scenery thst looks good at 100 ft. When flying over these areas a minimum of very roughly 1,500 ft in FSX and 2,500 ft in FS9 is needed for good visuals.

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I know it's a lot to ask for and I am not asking for every single city and place all over the world to be perfect but maybe just better more realistic looking autogen is what I am asking for. I get more visual enjoyment out of flying helicopters at low level flight in other video games like war games where flying low is just pretty darn cool. I'm not knocking FSX at all I just wish there were some kind of settings that when flying at or below 3000 feet autogen really comes alive with 1.) A HUGE variety of buildings/trees/parking lots/cars/trucks etc etc and 2.) All that in very good detail.To me like I said earlier (and I know it's just my personal opinion)flying at low level is awesome. I love to take off from say a winter Rhode Island with some snow scattered on the bare trees and land across country in San Diego with beautiful sunshine and palm trees by the airport. There is such an awesome sense of change in environment and for some reason it does something for me. I just wish I could feel this in a flight sim. I don't know anything about how the scenery works and I am just simply guessing that it's autogen. It seems to me like the scenery is just like a picture and it's "pasted on the globe" if you will. So what you are seeing is an actual overshot that is obviously in 2d format and when you fly at low level everything seems to look very odd and misshaped. This is where autogen comes in I suppose. I just wish everything was at least heading towards improvement in this area of the game. I am not expecting them to get this nailed down in every corner of the planet but it would be nice to at least have some pretty nice realistic cities or places to fly in and out of.

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>It seems to>me like the scenery is just like a picture and it's "pasted on>the globe" if you will. So what you are seeing is an actual>overshot that is obviously in 2d format and when you fly at>low level everything seems to look very odd and misshaped. Yes but no...Take Megascenery Hawaii as an example. It's photo-real imagery laid over mesh. While climbing out over 1000' agl (preferably 2000'), the scenery starts looking very authentic and quite three dimensional, even though I have auto-gen on off. Overall, after the initial climb out, this type of scenery is my preference, as it looks real rather than animated. It's photo-like with a glossier look to it.For those real low level flights that you are talking about, I prefer 3rd party scenery such as FlightScenery's Portland, and Fly Tampa airports for FS9, as well as the excellent freeware "Glacier Bay" (FS9).Fly Tampa and Cloud 9 have also produced great looking "low level" airport scenery areas for FSX. There just isn't enough of it, yet.L.Adamson

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Yeah I have FZ Portland for FS9. It's amazing. I just wish that FSX would do this or FZ/Tampa would come out with some more airports. I know that this is difficult work but I'm willing to spend the money that it's worth for it because this is what I really enjoy.

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>Yeah I have FZ Portland for FS9. It's amazing. I just wish>that FSX would do this or FZ/Tampa would come out with some>more airports. I know that this is difficult work but I'm>willing to spend the money that it's worth for it because this>is what I really enjoy.Reading the various posts... FZ and Tampa have gone hiatus from FSX. Too bad for FSX.Manny

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>Reading the various posts... FZ and Tampa have gone hiatus>from FSX. Too bad for FSX.>Okay.........Then MegasScenery for FSX, and FZ/FlyTampa for FS9..........if their is any more... :-hah L.Adamson

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While the grass is ok looking over into the city picture ground textures it looks poor as usual just like the Vegas night shot linked to amongst others.To the OP, I imagine you're thinking of ground textures something like we get in games such as Farcry, etc. which can maintain their integrity right down to ground level instead of looking like blobs or patches of whatever. I guess the usual problems associated with memory, cpu power etc. would govern this issue. Maybe in the future.

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>Hmm, I think the default ground and autogen looks amazing,>and I fly at or below tree tops all the time.>>http://sio.midco.net/FTP5/decathlon2.jpg>>http://sio.midco.net/FTP5/supercobra2.jpgI don't have any editing software and I am too lazy right now to do it but if you look at the bottom pic (the heli one) and look to the bottom right. Look at that "blurry" ground with trees just popping out of it. That's not really appealing to the eye imho. I call it blurry ground I don't know if that's really a good description.

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>I don't have any editing software and I am too lazy right now>to do it but if you look at the bottom pic (the heli one) and>look to the bottom right. Look at that "blurry" ground with>trees just popping out of it. That's not really appealing to>the eye imho. I call it blurry ground I don't know if that's>really a good description.Yeah its blurry but that section is a texture showing foliage and trees, so there is not meant to be definition there other than a mess of green. On the other hand the textures in FSX are much better than what was available a year ago. Somebody can say it looks "poor", but compared to what? I think it looks pretty good, and the best looking flight sim in the history of earth. One of the secrets to enjoying graphics is to focus on what looks good and not what looks bad, and let your imagination fill in the rest. Computer graphics looked awesome back in 95 when the first 3D accelerators came out, people were amazed, and here we are 12 years later, where people are pointing out how "poor" the graphics look.

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Are you guys saying it is supposed to look like that?If so I wasted 2 days trying to get the blurr out but came up empty.It looks good @ 32000 ft though.

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You have to remember that the default setup in FS is for the entireworld, which is approximated with a set of textures that are drawnin different places depending on the "landclass". MS cannot hopeto create very high resolution textures for the whole world ...1) As you increase the resolution of the textures you have to makethem more right (ie if people can recognise features they expect thefeatures they see locally). This means more unique textures, somuch more data as you need many more different textures.2) Higher resolution textures are larger - more data again3) MS is an American company - you should see the default Europeantextures (low resolution) - looks like the middle ages. This sortof thing is much better done as an addon by people who know whatthe local area looks like4) Larger textures, and more unique textures puts a heavierload on the texture engine. Look how many comments on blurries thereare on this site - and that is with low resolution textures. Thetime to fetch and render is proportional to the square of the resolution. So twice the resolution requires four times the power(FSB speed) to do the same quality of render.The default is a compromise between looking at something, and thespeed of computers, cost to MS to employ someone from every countyand size of installation.You can get very high resolution textures. BlueSky for centralLAX (FS9) is less then 1 meter, and it looks good from 100 feet,but then this is a 80Mbyte download (compressed) for a coupleof square miles at the centre of LAX. You can get photographic scenery from various companies that lookgood from a few 100 feet, these will be small areas only and arelarge download/installation. UK comes on something like 6 DVD's.Also you need a beefy computer to use this and you need to flyslow and steady.As as been noted, in a few years we might get 1 meter textures forlarge areas of the world + 1 meter mesh + landclass at 1 meterresolution - but we are probably talking of a computer with 250Gbytesof RAM, 100 Tbytes of disk space, and 32 processors at 1Thz Think not As reals as it gets, rather "as real as it gets today".Tom

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Good post Tom.I just wish there was a way that they can either fix autogen to make that look more realistic or just do SOMETHING to help with the graphics at lower level flight. I know that most of a flight is done at altitude. You're not going to fly across the country at 500 feet in a jet. I know it would take a lot of time and a lot of cpu power still to do this but I think they should at least try to improve in surrounding airports and maybe just popular airports. Just make a fairly wide radius around the entire airport and really try to get these parts down better or at least have some more accurate and different types of autogen. I just think that this is something that they should work on for FS11 and beyond. In the picture above (with the heli) I really lose my depth perception because of the blurry ground mixed in with the higher resolution autogen trees and buildings that just pop right out of it.

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>Please, don't judge the FSX ground textures from these old>gamespot screenshots - their PC obviously was not capable of>displaying high quality (1 m per pixel) textures, there was>not even antialisasing active. Look at Mango's screenshots at>Flightsimworld>(http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=128136&st=440)>to see what FSX can look like on a good PC.>>Regards>I just used that as an example of the blurry ground with buildings that are higher detail just popping out of it. Just an example at a particular thing not an overall look at the graphics. I do own the game and have owned it since last October.

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>>I just used that as an example of the blurry ground with>buildings that are higher detail just popping out of it. Just>an example at a particular thing not an overall look at the>graphics. I do own the game and have owned it since last>October.>Back to my "old" pics, seeing how I have not updated lately.All three are addon payware scenery, where higher detail is done for smaller areas. If you want detail, these kind of products are always available for limited flying areas.This one is FSX with MegaScenery Hawaii. No autogen to mess up the look, but has an extreme look of 3D as the city scape blends with the foothills. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/178970.jpgThe next two are FS9 & FlightScenery Portland. Very crisp textures right down to the ground, including grass blades along the runway & taxiways. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/178971.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/178972.jpg

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>Good post Tom.>>I just wish there was a way that they can either fix autogen>to make that look more realistic or just do SOMETHING to help>with the graphics at lower level flight. I know that most of>a flight is done at altitude. You're not going to fly across>the country at 500 feet in a jet. I know it would take a lot>of time and a lot of cpu power still to do this but I think>they should at least try to improve in surrounding airports>and maybe just popular airports. Just make a fairly wide>radius around the entire airport and really try to get these>parts down better or at least have some more accurate and>different types of autogen. I just think that this is>something that they should work on for FS11 and beyond. In>the picture above (with the heli) I really lose my depth>perception because of the blurry ground mixed in with the>higher resolution autogen trees and buildings that just pop>right out of it.Do you mean autogen - buildings, trees, or do you mean ground textures? I don't mind the autogen at all it's those ground textures which are butt ugly.

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>>>>I just used that as an example of the blurry ground with>>buildings that are higher detail just popping out of it. >Just>>an example at a particular thing not an overall look at the>>graphics. I do own the game and have owned it since last>>October.>>>>Back to my "old" pics, seeing how I have not updated lately.>>All three are addon payware scenery, where higher detail is>done for smaller areas. If you want detail, these kind of>products are always available for limited flying areas.>>>This one is FSX with MegaScenery Hawaii. No autogen to mess up>the look, but has an extreme look of 3D as the city scape>blends with the foothills. >>>http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/178970.jpg>>The next two are FS9 & FlightScenery Portland. Very crisp>textures right down to the ground, including grass blades>along the runway & taxiways. >>>http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/178971.jpg>>>http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/178972.jpg>that is simply amazing. I have FZ portland but the other one of Hawaii I don't of course. That's an awesome shot. I wish FZ would come out with more for FSX but I guess they're not going to?? The megascenery hawaii how does that look when taking off and flying really low?? You look like you have some altitude but still that is awesome. Do you have anymore pics or can you take anymore?? Thanks man awesome pics.

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>>Good post Tom.>>>>I just wish there was a way that they can either fix autogen>>to make that look more realistic or just do SOMETHING to>help>>with the graphics at lower level flight. I know that most>of>>a flight is done at altitude. You're not going to fly>across>>the country at 500 feet in a jet. I know it would take a>lot>>of time and a lot of cpu power still to do this but I think>>they should at least try to improve in surrounding airports>>and maybe just popular airports. Just make a fairly wide>>radius around the entire airport and really try to get these>>parts down better or at least have some more accurate and>>different types of autogen. I just think that this is>>something that they should work on for FS11 and beyond. In>>the picture above (with the heli) I really lose my depth>>perception because of the blurry ground mixed in with the>>higher resolution autogen trees and buildings that just pop>>right out of it.>>Do you mean autogen - buildings, trees, or do you mean ground>textures? I don't mind the autogen at all it's those ground>textures which are butt ugly.Yeah I guess it's the ground textures that really I have a problem with and not the autogen. The autogen could use some work imo but it's definetley not as bad as the ground textures. I really feel as though it's a 2d picture pasted on so when flying at altitude looking straight down it's fine but when you get lower everything starts to look really awful.

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>Yeah I guess it's the ground textures that really I have a>problem with and not the autogen. The autogen could use some>work imo but it's definetley not as bad as the ground>textures. I really feel as though it's a 2d picture pasted on>so when flying at altitude looking straight down it's fine but>when you get lower everything starts to look really awful.Unfortunatly even the photo scenery looks blurry and flat from down low, though it does look amazing from above. I'll post a few pics from down low when I get home in a couple hours, otherwise here a couple to show how good it can look from altitude, including one of default scenery, which I still think is better than a lot of the photo scenery out there due to the awesome autogen....http://sio.midco.net/111lll/megascenery.jpghttp://sio.midco.net/111lll/oahu.jpghttp://sio.midco.net/FTP5/Eurotrip2.jpg

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