Canada, ru ok?!

[martin-w 3,235]

Nice UK air source heat pump video below. this is a renovation though, not just a switch from gas fired heating to Heat pump.

Interesting that he plumbed it with those compression fittings and machine you guys often use in the US. Rather than traditional soldered joints. Not sure it would be my favorite way of doing things, with all those seals to fail.

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by martin-w

[JRMurray 214]

On 8/15/2023 at 4:51 PM, scotchegg said:

Im guessing most houses don’t have AC? 

As someone else mentioned, it does get pretty hot over the summer in the interior of BC. During the heat dome of 2021, the temperature in Lytton, BC reached 49.6°C/121.3°F.

That said, you're correct: most houses don't have AC. According to Statistics Canada, as of 2021, only 36% of British Columbian households have any type of air conditioning. I live in Surrey, BC, part of Metropolitan Vancouver, and I don't have air conditioning in my house, which is 20 years old. I don't think any of my neighbours have air conditioning, either.

Edited August 19, 2023 by JRMurray

[martin-w 3,235]

9 hours ago, JRMurray said:

That said, you're correct: most houses don't have AC. According to Statistics Canada, as of 2021, only 36% of British Columbian households have any type of air conditioning. 

 

I guess your houses are built like ours in the British Isles, to retain heat. Guernsey, where I am, is warmer, but we still don't have AC in most domestic homes. 

[dave2013 1,130]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:50 AM, martin-w said:

Depends how they are designed. If configured properly they can be effective in cold climates.

Heat pumps are not efficient in very cold climates, which is why they're not generally used in the far north of the U.S.  Perhaps you're talking about some special design, but typical ones are just not used in very cold weather. 

Anyway, my point is that the electrical load will be much higher if everyone stops using natural gas furnaces and switches to heat pumps.  I do not believe most areas have the extra electrical capacity to handle that additional load.  Add to this other things not allowed to be mentioned   that will also consume more electricity and you're asking for serious challenges, likely leading to shortages, rationing, and higher costs.

You can't get something for nothing.  The law of conservation of matter and energy and all that.

Dave

[martin-w 3,235]

5 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Heat pumps are not efficient in very cold climates, which is why they're not generally used in the far north of the U.S. Perhaps you're talking about some special design, but typical ones are just not used in very cold weather. 

 

Depends how cold we are talking about and if ground source or air source. As I mentioned in my original comment, it depends how they are configured. And ground source heat pumps are optimal for very cold climates rather than air source heat pumps. In VERY cold climates heat pumps lose efficiency and may require backup. 

 

Quote

The refrigerant can absorb heat even in extremely low temperatures of -20 °C, which is why heat pumps are able to work in cold climates. This evaporated refrigerant is then compressed, which increases the temperature further. The gas can then transfer its heat into your home's central heating system.

 

Your heat pump will continue to work in cold weather, as long as you purchase the right one. Every heat pump is different and you will need the right equipment in order to make sure that your home can be heated throughout winter. For the UK’s temperatures, this may not be as big a problem as it could be for some places, such as Canada or North America, where temperatures can drop to  -30 °C. As a German manufacturer, Viessmann have tested their heat pumps in the harsh German winter and elsewhere in Europe. 

 

 

https://www.viessmann.co.uk/en/heating-advice/heat-pumps/how-do-heat-pumps-work-in-cold-climates.html#:~:text=The refrigerant can absorb heat,your home's central heating system.

 

According to these guys below, their air source system can work in any almost any climate. Whether that's true or not, and how efficient is the question, but a ground source heat pump would be far better than an air source heat pump in very cold conditions in my opinion. Not that I'm much of a fan of them to begin with, to be honest. Too expensive and too much disruption to install in an older property and if its not well insulated its an issue. Much of the existing 15mm and 22mm pipe has to be ripped out and larger diameter pipes installed. Probably a no brainer in the British Isles if you are building from scratch, or a full on extreme  house refurb and if you can afford a ground source system. Ground source heat pumps can be piped right down to 120m.   

 

Quote

When properly installed, plenty of today’s air-source heat pumps (simply “heat pumps,” for the rest of this article) can keep your home toasty even amid bone-chilling cold, using far less energy than other types of heating systems. Many homeowners will save money with a heat pump, too. While Consumer Reports hasn’t tested any whole-house heating and cooling equipment, including heat pumps, studies and real-world testimonials paint a clear picture that heat pumps can work. According to Dave Lis, director of technology and market solutions at Northeast Energy Efficiency Partnerships (NEEP), air-source heat pumps can work as a home’s main heating system in almost any climate

https://www.consumerreports.org/heat-pumps/can-heat-pumps-actually-work-in-cold-climates-a4929629430/

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by martin-w

[JRMurray 214]

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

I guess your houses are built like ours in the British Isles, to retain heat.

Correct. Until recently (the last five years or so), it's rarely been hot enough for a long enough time to require air conditioning. Retrofitting my house for central air conditioning would be exorbitantly expensive, so we make do with fans and open doors and windows that have bug screens.

[martin-w 3,235]

Just now, JRMurray said:

o we make do with fans and open doors and windows that have bug screens

 

Yep, same here. And don't laugh, but my daughter and I both have USB desk fans, and to be honest they are surprisingly good. 😃  We also have a big fan of course. The only bugs we get are common flies. Lots of them this year due to a local egg farm that had issues. 🙄

 

[JRMurray 214]

1 minute ago, martin-w said:

The only bugs we get are common flies.

We get flies, bees, wasps (lots this summer!), and other flying insects, so screens are a necessity for most people.

No laughing here for USB desk fans: my daughter has one, as well as a handheld fan that she uses regularly. I agree: they are really useful and do help.

[dave2013 1,130]

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Depends how cold we are talking about and if ground source or air source. As I mentioned in my original comment, it depends how they are configured. And ground source heat pumps are optimal for very cold climates rather than air source heat pumps. In VERY cold climates heat pumps lose efficiency and may require backup. 

Well, it certainly seems like you know what you're talking about.

The Winter's aren't too bad in the Channel Islands, so your location would be ideal for a heat pump.  They are very environmentally friendly, plus they save you money.  You'd also get to use more of the green electricity from France that you've mentioned.

Just wondering if you plan on replacing your furnace?

Dave

[martin-w 3,235]

16 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Well, it certainly seems like you know what you're talking about.

 

I know a little, not a lot.

 

16 hours ago, dave2013 said:

The Winter's aren't too bad in the Channel Islands, so your location would be ideal for a heat pump.  They are very environmentally friendly, plus they save you money.  You'd also get to use more of the green electricity from France that you've mentioned.

 

Average is 6C in the winter and seldom drops below freezing, snow is rare. To be honest I'm not sure how many heat pump installations there are in Guernsey, although there are 30 plus installers apparently, so there must be a demand. Those are air source heat pump installers. No idea if there are any ground source heat pump installations, if there are I'd presume they were horizontal systems rather than vertical as we have a lot of granite here. 

Cable from France, yes, via Jersey.  Currently 93% of our electricity comes from France via the undersea cable. There is a limit in terms of how much it can deliver though, so they are looking at a second cable. Sometimes, when demand is very high, they have to power up our coal fired power station. They are also looking at an offshore wind farm, in fact a couple of months ago the Norwegian company Eqinor were here discussing the feasibility with the relevant parties. Elsewhere in the archipelago, Jersey are considering the same options, solar, wind and tidal.  We have one of the biggest tidal ranges on the planet, so tidal is crying out for our attention. In fact Jersey doubles in size when the tide is out. 

 

16 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Just wondering if you plan on replacing your furnace?

 

No, we're in a rented place. Can't touch it. We're electric for heating and a gas boiler for water. Gas on the island is LPG, there is no natural gas in Guernsey. Our LPG has to be shipped into the island.

Edited August 20, 2023 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,235]

19 hours ago, JRMurray said:

We get flies, bees, wasps (lots this summer!), and other flying insects, so screens are a necessity for most people.

 

Mostly just flies in our houses, all manner of insects when out and about though. And an 18 inch long western green lizard shot across our path when on a cliff walk recently. I had no idea such large lizards were in the British Isles. 

[dmwalker 606]

39 minutes ago, martin-w said:

And an 18 inch long western green lizard shot across our path when on a cliff walk recently. I had no idea such large lizards were in the British Isles.

"It is native in Andorra, Croatia, France, Germany, Italy, Monaco, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Guernsey and Jersey in the Channel Isles. and introduced into the United States. There are also introduced colonies on the south coast of the U.K, notably around Poole Bay in Dorset."

[Mace 1,928]

1 hour ago, martin-w said:

No, we're in a rented place. Can't touch it. We're electric for heating and a gas boiler for water. Gas on the island is LPG, there is no natural gas in Guernsey. Our LPG has to be shipped into the island.

Curious if people have propane on Guernsey?

[martin-w 3,235]

2 hours ago, dmwalker said:

"It is native in Andorra, Croatia, France, Germany, Italy, Monaco, Serbia, Slovenia, Spain, Switzerland, Guernsey and Jersey in the Channel Isles. and introduced into the United States. There are also introduced colonies on the south coast of the U.K, notably around Poole Bay in Dorset."

 

Yep, I'm wondering why or how they were introduced  on the south coast of the UK. 

[martin-w 3,235]

2 hours ago, Mace said:

Curious if people have propane on Guernsey?

 

I'm not sure to be honest. As far as I know its all LPG.