JFK - the 60th anniversary on Wednesday.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,030]

I’m sure there are plenty of us who were old enough to remember that awful event. I was a 12 year-old living in Sydney, Australia after my parents emigrated the previous year. We didn’t hear about his death until Saturday morning and I always remember the reaction of a friend’s mother when I told them. Sydney is 16 hours ahead of Dallas so it happened at 04:30.

I appreciate this is a political subject but it’s the events of the day I’ve always been interested in rather than JFK’s politics.

Having watched Oliver Stone’s JFK and numerous documentaries I remain convinced the fatal shot was fired from forward and to the right of his car. The evidence in photos of the body is overwhelming. That means a second gunman and a conspiracy. I can’t accept the report by the Warren Commission as they wanted a lone nut killer.

As to who was behind it my guess is the Mafia. We’ll never know of course.

So come 18:30 GMT on Wednesday I’ll pause whatever I’m doing and reflect on the events in Dealey Plaza 60 years ago.

[Les Parson 102]

I was fourteen years old in 1963 and have spent decades studying the assassination. I'm leaving for Dallas tomorrow morning to spend the next few days with a group of serious researchers at the 6th Floor Museum (the former Texas School Book Depository) on 22 November, the 60th anniversary.

 

[Fielder 3,703]

Oswald doesn't seem to me a guy the mafia or the C.I.A. else would trust for an extremely dangerous assignment. Even the Cuban embassy told him to go take a hike when he went there. Russia didn't seem very happy with him when he lived there.

Shooting the President is a high risk operation. I doubt the C.I.A. or the mafia would take such a foolish risk, unless there was a gigantic reward in it for them. But guys like Oswald just might do it.

[Ray Proudfoot 9,030]

51 minutes ago, Les Parson said:

I'm leaving for Dallas tomorrow morning to spend the next few days with a group of serious researchers at the 6th Floor Museum (the former Texas School Book Depository) on 22 November, the 60th anniversary.

I envy you. It’s a place I’ve always wanted to visit. Guess I’ve left it too late.

@Fielder, so you believe in the “lone nut theory”? That Oswald acted alone.

So how do you explain frame 313 of the Zapruder film that shows Kennedy’s head being  thrown back and to the left?

I’ve just finished watching a programme titled “JFK Assassination: what happened in the trauma room”. Multiple doctors present at Parkland when his body was brought there all agree the wound to the rear of his head was an exit wound. They claim the autopsy conducted at Bethesda involved removing evidence of a front shot. They were also told never to discuss what they had seen that day.

All those doctors shown in that interview in 2013 are now dead. We’ll never the truth.

[Fielder 3,703]

I tend to favor the simplest explanation.

BTW, I therefore think the reason we haven't had known alien visitation is that there aren't any aliens to visit. There's just too many parameters that have to be line up perfect for life to begin, and not a zillionth enough planets in all of space to make it probable. I think that if I'm wrong, then some of them would have been here in an obvious way a long time ago.

I look at motive. I imagine a mafia boardroom where someone raises their hand and suggests shooting the President of the United States. Or at a CIA meeting. And then the boss says, "Hah, a nice joke"!

I don't have enough faith to jump to the complex, when a simple solution comes to mind. I believe it probable that someone could hide the fact that they killed Hoffa. But not the President of the United States and get away with it for all this time. On the other hand almost anything is possible about anything.

I can't answer the questions about the Z film and wound appearance. But others have given explanations.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Les Parson 102]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I envy you. It’s a place I’ve always wanted to visit. Guess I’ve left it too late.

@Fielder, so you believe in the “lone nut theory”? That Oswald acted alone.

So how do you explain frame 313 of the Zapruder film that shows Kennedy’s head being  thrown back and to the left?

I’ve just finished watching a programme titled “JFK Assassination: what happened in the trauma room”. Multiple doctors present at Parkland when his body was brought there all agree the wound to the rear of his head was an exit wound. They claim the autopsy conducted at Bethesda involved removing evidence of a front shot. They were also told never to discuss what they had seen that day.

All those doctors shown in that interview in 2013 are now dead. We’ll never the truth.

Most of the local principals believe Oswald acted alone as do I. Sadly, many people have been persuaded by Oliver Stone's fantastical 1992 'JFK' movie which is based on more fiction than fact. As far as Zapruder 313 is concerned, the head, brain matter, tissue and blood is actually propelled forward for a brief fraction of a second. This can't be seen on a low quality 1963 Bell & Howell 8mm camera print but can be seen with later computer technology. Moreover, no one can definitively predict how a body will react to a high velocity projectile. When I was a kid, I used to shoot empty soda cans on a on fence and was amazed when the can would fall towards me. CIA allegations are void of any substantial or credible evidence. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. 

As far as the doctors or other witnesses are concerned, people make mistakes and errors in judgement. One such error occurred when examining the President's throat wound. What was assumed to be an emergency tracheotomy was in fact an exit wound from likely the second shot. I am familiar with the documentary you speak of. 

In 1988, I had a unique and fortuitous opportunity to interview Governor Connally of Texas on board a four plus hour flight. I did an interview on that in 2014 with the 6th Floor Museum (formerly the Texas School Book Depository). I could send you a video of that if you're interested. 

There is so much more. I find it astonishing to still be spending so much  time on this after so many years. 

All the best. 

 

[Ray Proudfoot 9,030]

8 hours ago, Les Parson said:

I did an interview on that in 2014 with the 6th Floor Museum (formerly the Texas School Book Depository). I could send you a video of that if you're interested. 

Thank you. A link in a PM would be fine. All your points understood but whilst I could accept one Parkland surgeon making a mistake I find it hard to accept they all did.

Why all the available information about that day is still not released is curious.

[Christopher Low 5,379]

Whilst I remain sceptical of the lone gunman theory, I would have thought that an exit wound at the front would act like an explosive force, and propel his head backwards (which is what can be seen in the Zapruder footage).

[Ray Proudfoot 9,030]

34 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

Whilst I remain sceptical of the lone gunman theory, I would have thought that an exit wound at the front would act like an explosive force, and propel his head backwards (which is what can be seen in the Zapruder footage).

But what about the bullet hitting the front of his head? Would that not propel his head backwards?

Consider these facts.

1) The autopsy should have taken place in Texas according to state law. By removing his body the Secret Service broke the law. Why the hurry to get the body out of Texas?

2) Jackie climbed onto the rear of the car to retrive brain matter. If the fatal shot was from the rear wouldn't that be in the rear seat area?

3) Why were two physicians at Bethesda ordered to perform an autopsy when they had no experience in that area?

4) Many people who witnessed the killing died in mysterious circumstances. Lee Bowers - the car park attendant - being just one.

Oswald just wasn't a good enough shot for 3 shots in under 6 seconds. Why didn't he take an easier shot as the motorcade approached the TSB? Far easier than from further away as the car moved away.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced Oswald was just a patsy as he claimed. Part of a team but not responsible for the fatal shot.

[Patco Lch 1,474]

I was eleven years and living in Managua Nicaragua. My Dad was assigned there with the US Army. We were restricted to quarters because of the possibility we were at war. 

To show how far the CIA will go look up operation North Woods. Not a conspiracy theory but true. Willing to kill US citizens under a false flag to start a war with Cuba.

 

[charliearon 3,032]

Friday November 22, 1963.  10:30 am sitting in 8th grade Algebra class when the announcement came in.  Went that evening to see Lawrence of Arabia.

[martin-w 3,252]

14 hours ago, Fielder said:

BTW, I therefore think the reason we haven't had known alien visitation is that there aren't any aliens to visit. There's just too many parameters that have to be line up perfect for life to begin, and not a zillionth enough planets in all of space to make it probable. I think that if I'm wrong, then some of them would have been here in an obvious way a long time ago.

 

Off topic, so I'll be brief.

Life appeared on Earth pretty much as soon as the planet cooled, so seems like it might be relatively easy. A very significant percentage of the planets out there are small and rocky like our planet. Elements associated with life, like water, organic material, and energy are everywhere. So given that there are an estimated 6 billion Earthlike planets in our galaxy and 2 trillion galaxies in the observable universe, observable  as in just what we can see, it might not be a good idea to dismiss the possibility of life.

Intelligent, technological life is a different proposition, because on out planet it took one third of the age of the universe to evolve, so seems hard. As for technological life visiting us, if they are out there, then the distances involved and various "great filters" might be reasons for their lack of a visit rather than their non-existence. 

Not as brief as I intended. 🙂

 

 

[Ray Proudfoot 9,030]

15 minutes ago, martin-w said:

Not as brief as I intended

And totally off-topic. At least @Fielder made a comment about the assassination.

No more alien theories please.

[martin-w 3,252]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

And totally off-topic. At least @Fielder made a comment about the assassination.

No more alien theories please.

 

Yes Ray, like I said... off topic, no need for a warning. There wasn't going to be any more. Now... what about my alien assassination theory. 🤔

[BillW 212]

4 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

But what about the bullet hitting the front of his head? Would that not propel his head backwards?

Consider these facts.

1) The autopsy should have taken place in Texas according to state law. By removing his body the Secret Service broke the law. Why the hurry to get the body out of Texas?

2) Jackie climbed onto the rear of the car to retrive brain matter. If the fatal shot was from the rear wouldn't that be in the rear seat area?

3) Why were two physicians at Bethesda ordered to perform an autopsy when they had no experience in that area?

4) Many people who witnessed the killing died in mysterious circumstances. Lee Bowers - the car park attendant - being just one.

Oswald just wasn't a good enough shot for 3 shots in under 6 seconds. Why didn't he take an easier shot as the motorcade approached the TSB? Far easier than from further away as the car moved away.

The more I think about it the more I'm convinced Oswald was just a patsy as he claimed. Part of a team but not responsible for the fatal shot.

Oswald was a Marine. US Marines are all highly trained riflemen. That is their specialty. It is quite possible that he could have successfully fired the shots. None of us were ever around him on a gun range so who knows how capable he was. I doubt this mystery will ever be solved.

 

Bill W