New SU14 Beta client released. 1.35.19.0 SR22T Included

[MarcG 3,030]

7 minutes ago, Vitold69 said:

ini A320 is free. No need for marketplace. 

It's a partnership between iniBuilds and MS, of course it needs the marketplace.

[lwt1971 7,455]

4 minutes ago, Vitold69 said:

ini A320 is free. No need for marketplace. 

All free aircraft add-ons MS/Asobo provides (including the iniBuilds A310) is available only thru the in-sim marketplace. iniBuilds can't make the aircraft available separately thru the regular channels they use for their payware, as this A320 is contract work done for MS, for the default fleet (which means for *both* the PC and XBox platforms).
 

[Vitold69 47]

2 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

All free aircraft add-ons MS/Asobo provides (including the iniBuilds A310) is available only thru the in-sim marketplace.
 

Interesting 🤔

In "my Sim" )) ini A310 and FBW A320 are available through content manager. WU and City updates from marketplace yes. 

[Tuskin38 6,623]

6 hours ago, MarcG said:

It's a partnership between iniBuilds and MS, of course it needs the marketplace.

It's part of the base sim, you don't download it through the marketplace.

  

6 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

(including the iniBuilds A310) is available only thru the in-sim marketplace.

The A310 is part of the base sim, it isn't downloaded through the marketplace.

There is a free enhancement addon you can get through the marketplace though.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Tuskin38

[JYW 2,989]

Yes, before it was removed from SU14 beta, it was simply there in the sim after the update that introduced it.   It was then visible in Content Manager.    No interaction or dealings with Marketplace at all.

@Vitold69 is right on this one.

Edited November 30, 2023 by JYW

[lwt1971 7,455]

Oh ok fair, the point here is that the uni A320 needs to be available and pass the MS standards for stability for both PC and XBox. iniBuilds cannot make it available separately for PC only.

They have reiterated this today on their discord too. Nothing to do with the GPL issues with FBW, and everything to do with crashes on XBox as Jorg said yesterday.

Edited November 30, 2023 by lwt1971

[Drumcode 1,907]

16 hours ago, Alvega said:

new option "ATC enforce fligh plan" in Assistance Options (User Experience)

Speaking of which, this one got me a bit excited during Q&A. Has anyone tested the runway change due to wind change mid-taxi? Is Ground ATC actually changing the taxi instructions, or did they implemented this half a**ed?

Edited December 1, 2023 by Drumcode

[MrFuzzy 2,123]

5 hours ago, lwt1971 said:

Oh ok fair, the point here is that the uni A320 needs to be available and pass the MS standards for stability for both PC and XBox. iniBuilds cannot make it available separately for PC only.

They have reiterated this today on their discord too.

This is bad news. It means that any complex aircraft, scenery element or feature of the sim is actually held back by the limitations of the XBox platform. Exactly what has been denied for years by many on the forum.

Imagine this translated on FS 2024 in 2028, when PC users will have Ryzen 12800X3D and GeForce 8090 capable of smooth path tracing at native 4K and godonlyknows which other marvels, the new XBox is not released yet, and the new sim continues to be developed within the constraints of the XBox Series S limitations.

[lwt1971 7,455]

58 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

This is bad news. It means that any complex aircraft, scenery element or feature of the sim is actually held back by the limitations of the XBox platform. Exactly what has been denied for years by many on the forum.

Imagine this translated on FS 2024 in 2028, when PC users will have Ryzen 12800X3D and GeForce 8090 capable of smooth path tracing at native 4K and godonlyknows which other marvels, the new XBox is not released yet, and the new sim continues to be developed within the constraints of the XBox Series S limitations.

No, not at all.. note again when it comes to MS certifying something for release in-sim or marketplace, it's not about performance, it's about stability. If a default sim aircraft or other integral sim component (or marketplace add-on) causes crashes beyond a certain threshold, then yes that's going to have to be fixed before being released on both platforms. This is not about how they perform on PC or XBox. Also, the sim has always come with user graphics configurability for the PC, while for the XBox the settings are fixed/hardcoded to match the capabilities of the XBox-X or XBox-S.. so once again there is no holding back here of the sim on PC because of XBox performance or limitations. In your future hypotheticals with nvidia 8xxx series or whatever, if they still have XBox-S as a supported platform (unlikely), then all that means is that most of the marvels will be disabled for that particular platform.

This is what iniBuilds said on their discord:

Josh
It's the Xbox crashes, as Jorg very clearly said

Josh
There are people who have had crashes, additionally both Asobo and MS have their own testing teams on Xbox. For MS to sign off on something included in the base sim they need at least 93% non crash rate, which isn't what they were seeing across their data. This has all been said publicly by Jorg yesterday. He also said that it will come back in a future update. There's no need to come up with doom and gloom theories based on no evidence, when it has already been confirmed why it was delayed, and that it will come back.

Steve 
The thing is they do know. As it was stated in the dev stream, the neo is not meeting acceptable crash tolerance percentages. That's it.

Nico
be that as it may, the 787 has a lower crash rate and was fine for certification; our a320 wasn't
 

And as iniBuilds also rightly said on their discord to those disparaging XBox as part of their dooming & glooming, if not for the XBox market MS wouldn't be able to pour in the kind of money it has into the sim and all the infrastructure

Josh
the fact of the matter is, Asobo probably wouldn't have got half the funding that they have if it weren't for xbox, chances are there wouldn't have been the 40th anniversary planes for free, the AAU upgrades, WUs, CUs etc. Like it or not, Xbox is critical to the success of this sim on both platforms and the devs that work on it. 

Additionally, not everyone can afford or justify a PC. Just think about what you'd do in that situation before dunking on people that play on Xbox
 

Edited December 1, 2023 by lwt1971

[MrFuzzy 2,123]

15 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

No, not at all.. note again when it comes to MS certifying something for release in-sim or marketplace, it's not about performance, it's about stability.

And why does something crash on XBox but not on PC? Memory 🙂 The Series S, on which FS 2024 will run, has 16 GB of shared memory, and the situation won't change until the new XBox is released, 4 years after FS 2024. 

[lwt1971 7,455]

12 minutes ago, MrFuzzy said:

And why does something crash on XBox but not on PC? Memory 🙂 The Series S, on which FS 2024 will run, has 16 GB of shared memory, and the situation won't change until the new XBox is released, 4 years after FS 2024. 

And how do you know that this iniBuilds A320 crashing problem on XBox is occurring because of memory? 🙂 There could be any number of reasons that is not due to memory constraints. What about equally (or more) complex aircraft like the iniBuilds A310, or PMDG 737, or the default 787, etc that all have been certified for XBox? (which means they run without crashing on XBox-S even). Are they all somehow using less memory than the iniBuilds A320? What about PCs that have 16GB of RAM, are they always crashing with MSFS?

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by lwt1971

[Bdub22 1,622]

4 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Are they all somehow using less memory than the iniBuilds A320? What about PCs that have 16GB of RAM, are they always crashing with MSFS?

Fair enough, but I do think they bring up an honest question about how scalable the tech for 2024 will be when it’s hindered by an older console. The folks at Asobo and MS are a smart bunch, but it’s certainly something to think of, as MS/AS will want to add more features they know a futuristic PC can handle, but an old console can not. Either way, I’m sure they’ve thought of this and maybe how they’ll solve these issues are with PC sliders.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Bdub22

[btacon 1,837]

Just now, lwt1971 said:

Are they all somehow using less memory than the iniBuilds A320?

Well that’s a real possibility from my experience and perspective on iniBuilds.  I have over a dozen of their products and none of them demonstrate superior use of system memory. They all seem quite hoggish and that’s just not my opinion. Read the boards and you will find that to be a common perspective concerning inibuilds. “Memory Hogs”.

-B

[lwt1971 7,455]

22 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

Fair enough, but I do think they bring up an honest question about scalable the tech for 2024 will be when it’s hindered by an older console. The folks at Asobo and MS are a smart bunch, but it’s certainly something to think of, as MS/AS will want to add more features they know a futuristic PC can handle, but an old console can not. Either way, I’m sure they’ve thought of this and maybe how they’ll solve these issues are with PC sliders.

Ya the only feasible way to support a wide range of hardware capabilities (be they low-end PCs or XBox-S, to uber PCs and everything inbetween) is to write software that scales with hardware, and give appropriate configurability to open-ended platforms like PCs, and clamp down with hardcoded settings on closed systems like XBox (to match the known and specific hardware capabilities of those platforms). Certainly fair to bring up the question of course.

Keep in mind also that XBox is not on the lowest end of the supported hardware.. the minimum PC requirements MS states for MSFS is 8GB RAM, GTX 770, etc. That's less than the lowest-spec XBox.

As easy as it is to scapegoat the XBox whenever things are not going right in the sim or add-ons or whatever, to say that MS/Asobo and MSFS are being hampered or held back by it simply doesn't mesh.. especially given the equally low-end PCs they also want to support, and actually even lower-end than the lowest XBox.
 

Edited December 1, 2023 by lwt1971

[lwt1971 7,455]

21 minutes ago, btacon said:

Well that’s a real possibility from my experience and perspective on iniBuilds.  I have over a dozen of their products and none of them demonstrate superior use of system memory. They all seem quite hoggish and that’s just not my opinion. Read the boards and you will find that to be a common perspective concerning inibuilds. “Memory Hogs”.

-B

But the iniBuilds A310 (on my list) got certified for use on XBox right. As did a bunch of their airports. And even if they were memory hogs (or despite that), they certainly didn't crash the XBox-X or -S enough for MS to not certify them.
 

Edited December 1, 2023 by lwt1971