Why is it so much harder to land airliners well for me...

[mryan75 281]

3 hours ago, Noel said:

Maybe...but something is SUPER different in the desktop sim over the RW:  I'm looking at a 34" display, a veritable tiny FOV, and in the RW you're looking at a giant field of view with fabulous stereo vision for distance/depth, plus you get to FEEL what's happening.  All of that is missing in the sim so in some ways I see it as likely much harder than in the RW, with the obvious caveat:  it all REALLY MATTERS in the RW, and not so much here 😉

We need to ask our RW friend G550flyer for his opinion on which is easier

Landing is way easier in real life, there’s no question. 

[Noel 4,581]

1 hour ago, Donstim said:

Be aware that Vapp in the A320 is not the Vref (which he refers to as REF) that G550flyer is referring to. Vapp already includes a minimum 5 knot additive to Vref.

FlyByWire recommended control settings can be found here: https://docs.flybywiresim.com/fbw-a32nx/settings/#controllers (though this is not meant to stop you from experimenting with your own controller to find the best settings for you)

Thanks, so how should one translate the VREF+5 w/ Vapp?

FWIW, the controller settings shown are nearly exactly like my old ones were.  Still experimenting but with my posted settings I'm even getting better ground handling post landing, by quite a bit too.  

[jon b 2,083]

Idiots guide to landing a 787:

At the 30ft  rad alt call raise the nose slowly so the top of the FPV symbol just touches the horizon line in the HUD just before touch down.

It works every time.

Boeing of course say not to use this technique , but who are they to give lectures about taking shortcuts.

[Donstim 109]

38 minutes ago, Noel said:

Thanks, so how should one translate the VREF+5 w/ Vapp?

As I said, Vapp already includes an additive of at least 5 knots on VREF. So if you're going to add 5 knots to VREF, add nothing to Vapp. 

[threexgreen 3,160]

19 minutes ago, jon b said:

Boeing of course say not to use this technique , but who are they to give lectures about taking shortcuts.

This shouldn't be funny but I laughed.

 

@Noel Vref (at your landing flap setting) + wind additive (always minimum 5 kts) = Vapp.

A rule that an airline I like to simulate uses for the 737 for the wind additive is half the headwind component plus the increase in gusts that may be present up to a maximum additive of Vref+15 kts.

So if the wind is 18016KT on runway 18 you would add 8 knots on top of Vref. So if Vref is 140 at flaps 30, that's 148 knots for Vapp.

If the wind is 18016G20KT on the same runway, you would add 12 knots to Vref for a Vapp of 152 knots (8 for 1/2 the headwind component plus 4 to account for gusts (increase from 16 to 20KT)).

It's rarely done in the 737, but if you land with the autothrottle engaged, leave the wind additive at 5 knots, no matter the conditions.

[Noel 4,581]

1 hour ago, Donstim said:

As I said, Vapp already includes an additive of at least 5 knots on VREF. So if you're going to add 5 knots to VREF, add nothing to Vapp. 

Sorry, I missed that.  Thanks

[Noel 4,581]

Despite the mild dissing here of the value focusing on "scoring landings" I have to say it's because of this that I'm learning more about landing dynamics!  Thanks all for the details more stuff to think and do on top of SLC (not Salt Lake City 😉).  Speaking of SLC and despite the fact for reasons beyond my comp the FBW 320N, that I just updated pre flight, decided to disconnect its linked  throttles during initial approach!  Even so, w/ the improved control settings I got this at KDEN in 1/2 visibility landing in light snow:

 

[RJC68 824]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

Despite the mild dissing here of the value focusing on "scoring landings" I have to say it's because of this that I'm learning more about landing dynamics!  Thanks all for the details more stuff to think and do on top of SLC (not Salt Lake City 😉).  Speaking of SLC and despite the fact for reasons beyond my comp the FBW 320N, that I just updated pre flight, decided to disconnect its linked  throttles during initial approach!  Even so, w/ the improved control settings I got this at KDEN in 1/2 visibility landing in light snow:

 

That's Great Noel,

What did you end up with for the A320 ? Sensitivity curve or extremity dead zones curve?

[Noel 4,581]

2 hours ago, RJC68 said:

That's Great Noel,

What did you end up with for the A320 ? Sensitivity curve or extremity dead zones curve?

OMG, I just went thru some nightmare as two controllers lost their settings, despite a reboot.  That was what was happening when I lost control of Engine 2's throttle lever so landed with it at idle and Eng 1 controlled w/ my TQ.  It took a while to figure out what happened and as it turned out most assignments on my TM TQ and also Cessna Trim Wheel which I use for nosewheel steering got blown out.  Weird and this is the first time this has happened to me since launch thankfully.  Is there a way to back up controller settings?

That last flight was EDZ of 60%, and Reactivity at 0%.  I'm not certain how much effect the full range of Reactivity can deliver.  But I can say it's better for sure.

Edited January 16 by Noel

[RJC68 824]

11 hours ago, Noel said:

OMG, I just went thru some nightmare as two controllers lost their settings, despite a reboot.  That was what was happening when I lost control of Engine 2's throttle lever so landed with it at idle and Eng 1 controlled w/ my TQ.  It took a while to figure out what happened and as it turned out most assignments on my TM TQ and also Cessna Trim Wheel which I use for nosewheel steering got blown out.  Weird and this is the first time this has happened to me since launch thankfully.  Is there a way to back up controller settings?

That last flight was EDZ of 60%, and Reactivity at 0%.  I'm not certain how much effect the full range of Reactivity can deliver.  But I can say it's better for sure.

Oh that sucks, I think there is a file somewhere you can backup locally for the controller settings but I thought everything was backed up too the cloud. Maybe someone else knows where this file is.

I still have to do a few more flights to see which is the better method, bringing the sensitivty curve down as per Easyjet Sim Pilot's video or using the extremity deadzone curve. 

[Noel 4,581]

1 hour ago, RJC68 said:

Oh that sucks, I think there is a file somewhere you can backup locally for the controller settings but I thought everything was backed up too the cloud. Maybe someone else knows where this file is.

I still have to do a few more flights to see which is the better method, bringing the sensitivty curve down as per Easyjet Sim Pilot's video or using the extremity deadzone curve. 

I found the location of the files that contain the controller settings but they're not exactly attractive to mess with at all!  Might be worth saving the entire folder but who knows what else is impacted if one simply tries to replace the current folder w/ the backup.   Once I realized what happened it didn't take too long to reset them though forgot how on a few of them.  Apparently it's all in the "wgs" folder:

C:\Users\ncp10\AppData\Local\Packages\Microsoft.FlightSimulator_8wekyb3d8bbwe\SystemAppData\wgs

[Noel 4,581]

Well there you go, major improvement persists!  Today's landing at KORD.  I'm stoked with what SLC has done for me so far.   It's kept me focused on the entire flight from cold and dark to shutdown and deboarding and it's so much more than *just* piloting the aircraft as was the case using only APL.  It's very easy to mentally disconnect using just APL but not so here and as a consequence I'm doing better score-wise in APL as well now.

 

 

[techman 174]

I have an average of 201 fpm on around 150 flights (DLH Virtual), all flown with the Fenix. Cut throttle at 30 fp, flare to 7 degrees, have 160 Pax burp and thats it. 200 fpm normally.