I'd rather live in a Tolkien Shire.

[martin-w 3,238]

2 hours ago, birdguy said:

When you say 'pruned' do you mean no longer there Martin?

 

Apparently, experts are divided. Some think forgotten memories are gone for good and others think minor traces remain. I think we've all had the experience of a fragment of a memory surfacing but we can't quite latch onto the entire memory. 

The above might be different to a memory still be retained but at a deeper level so harder to recall.

So much of what the brain does is still a mystery. 

Edited February 9 by martin-w

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:45 AM, martin-w said:

 

Initially maybe, but like all technologies the cost drops and they become available for "the masses". Plastic surgery was, at one time, only available for the very wealthy, but that's certainly not true now. All manner of individuals have cosmetic surgery done. 

 

Absolutely not true, the majority of the world lives in poverty, the majority of the western world lives in debt and paycheck to paycheck, for future generations the concept of home ownership is slipping away, and yes you are correct about plastic surgery becoming more affordable, because I had a former colleague that died getting plastic surgery in an underground unlicensed establishment, the anesthesia killed her, and the people running the 'clinic' put her in a taxi and told the driver to take her to the hospital, by the tine the police raided this clinic the people running it already fled the country, this was her 'Affordable Alternative'. So many people travel to third world countries today to save money on various treatments, and absolutely true Medically Induced Aging will lead to the best clinics for the wealth, and third world alternatives that put even more people in harms way.

That is the reality of fountain of youth in the world we live in.  My last question for you, do you own a house in Guernsey? is future generations going to be able to own a house on Guernsey? or will Guernsey be forever taken over by those that can afford the treatment to live for 200 years and lock everyone out of the island, because places like Guernsey and the concept of the Fountain of Youth are that valuable they will never be affordable to the majority in this world just trying to make it, and Guernsey becomes even further an island for the wealthy privileged with age extensions. Reality is the large majority are just trying to survive and that won't get any better over the next 50 to 100 years.

Edited February 12 by Matthew Kane

[martin-w 3,238]

7 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Absolutely not true, the majority of the world lives in poverty, the majority of the western world lives in debt and paycheck to paycheck, for future generations the concept of home ownership is slipping away,

 

No Mathew. The figure is 46% for global poverty. Not the majority. As for living pay cheque to pay cheque in the western world, I don't think figures are available for the western world in its entirety, so it varies.  26% claim they are in the UK, and 4 out of ten in Switzerland. 40% claim this in Germany. 30% in Ireland. So yes, it varies, but of course, these figures are based on various surveys, so what people claim, so I don't think there are official definitive figures. 

In terms of the plight of people at this time, probably worth considering that the world has just gone through a pandemic that has had a profound impact. 

But yes, it is true that technologies are always expensive initially, that has applied to airline travel that was once only available for the mega wealthy, that now is available for huge numbers of people. I'm sure you had plenty of flights in your life, well that wouldn't have been the case when the technology was first invented. You mention cosmetic surgery, well yes, that has dropped in price too, see link below...

https://fee.org/articles/why-cosmetic-procedures-are-getting-cheaper/#:~:text=did we find%3F-,The cost of the 19 cosmetic procedures relative to the,buy 1.35 items in 2018.

https://humanprogress.org/unlike-healthcare-cosmetic-procedures-are-getting-cheaper/

https://issuenumberone.journalism.cuny.edu/2016/04/01/the-ugly-truth-why-looking-beautiful-is-getting-cheaper-than-ever/

Acording to Dr. David Sinclair, a leading longevity expert, a longevity pill is possible that works at the cellular level, that's so simple to produce that a high school student could make it in their kitchen. It will be easily affordable he tells us. 

 

Edited February 12 by martin-w

[martin-w 3,238]

6 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

My last question for you, do you own a house in Guernsey? is future generations going to be able to own a house on Guernsey?

 

Guernsey isn't a good example I'm afraid. It's a VERY small island and property is in very short supply. Big demand and a housing crisis here, equates to huge house prices. Dearest in western Europe. So yes, present and future Guerns have issues in this respect, but its purely a case of a crowded island with a housing shortage.

[martin-w 3,238]

7 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

 Guernsey becomes even further an island for the wealthy

 

The majority of the population were born here Mathew. They aren't milionaires. It's a small island, a lot of food and goods have to be shipped in, which increses cost. Just a basic supermarket shop is VERY expensive.  Shortage of housing leads to huge house prices and very high rental cost. Yes, there are wealthy people here, and there have been some famous ones, but the majority aren't.  Salaries are higher than UK but the cost of living is much higher too, so they have to be. Lots of service industry workers here. 

 

Edited February 12 by martin-w

[birdguy 3,943]

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Acording to Dr. David Sinclair, a leading longevity expert, a longevity pill is possible that works at the cellular level, that's so simple to produce that a high school student could make it in their kitchen. It will be easily affordable he tells us. 

If such a pill were available now I would not take it.  I think the older you get the less fear you have of dying.  Along with my organ donor card I have a DNR card.

I think a longevity pill would also have to include an immunity to every kind of sickness and disease pill.

If such a pill were available and people were to stop dying how fast would the population of the earth grow until it runs out of resources to keep them alive?  Or would such a pill include reproductive sterilization to keep the world population from growing?

Noel

Edited February 12 by birdguy

[dmwalker 607]

If you double the human lifespan, you'll probably have to double the retirement age otherwise most folks will run out of money well before end of life.

[martin-w 3,238]

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

I think a longevity pill would also have to include an immunity to every kind of sickness and disease pill.

If such a pill were available and people were to stop dying how fast would the population of the earth grow until it runs out of resources to keep them alive?  Or would such a pill include reproductive sterilization to keep the world population from growing?

 

If it switched off aging completely, which is feasible according the the research, then age related illnesses would cease. Not sure how far away that is though, they do say that there's probably a person alive today who will be the first to have aging switched off. What is closer, of course, is delaying the aging process, which is already feasible with certain nutritional protocols and exercise regimes. A pill would make it easier and increase the effect. 

I'm not sure about the overpopulation issue you raise in terms of aging being switched off completely, at the moment its extending lifespan and healthspan that's nearer. In terms of carrying capacity of the Earth, its an interesting subject, and estimates vary wildly. What we know is that the carrying capacity depends on how we produce stuff, manage our resources and consume stuff. For example, its been calculated that if America stopped eating meat then the land used to raise animals would allow the country to handle 350 million more Americans... but I know you guys love a nice juicy burger. 😁 

 

[martin-w 3,238]

3 hours ago, dmwalker said:

If you double the human lifespan, you'll probably have to double the retirement age otherwise most folks will run out of money well before end of life.

 

Retirement ages are already going up, at least they are in the UK, not sure about the US. Maybe some form of universal basic income will be available by that time, with robots doeng many of the mundane jobs... and we'll all be free to live a Star Trek style existence? 😲 Awesome! 😏

[birdguy 3,943]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:52 AM, martin-w said:

Maybe some form of universal basic income will be available by that time, with robots doeng many of the mundane jobs... and we'll all be free to live a Star Trek style existence?

Define 'Star Trek style existence'.

Having been retired for almost 30 years now and living on a basic income that provides a comfortable, if not extravagant, lifestyle, I can tell you it's not all that grand as time goes on.

Not being a productive person has many drawbacks.  What do you do with your time?  I was attempting an around the world flight and about two or three weeks ago I just got burned out on flight simming and removed the simulator from my computer.  I have a hard time finding things to do except as noted near the end of this reply.  I do not want to be entertained all the time.  I ask myself, "Why am I still here?"  I don't fit anywhere anymore and people like me are warehoused in retirement homes until we die.  You get a feeling of uselessness and disconnected from the active world and in a society that looks strange to you.

Retirement is nice for the first decade when you do all the things you dreamed of doing when you were working and wished you had more time.  But then it becomes redundant.  That is followed by a sense of uselessness.

If I die tomorrow that's OK.  If I live another 5 or 10 years that's OK too, sort of, from where I sit today.  But what will my attitude be next year and the year after?

I am in excellent health for my age.  Physical limitations due to aging prevent me from doing things I did when I was more active but unless those things have meaning you are just passing time.

Robots doing mundane jobs and probably not so mundane jobs and getting a universal basic income I think would cause many mental health problems unless some form of productive work, even mundane work, for your universal basic income were required.  A person needs to have a purpose for living to have a sense of value and worth.  Not many of us here have that.

I'm one of the lucky few.  I have a talent for writing and story telling.  So I am writing stories about my life for my heirs to read.  A lady comes in once a week and I am telling her my life history bit by bit, and hour at a time, as I remember it, which she is taping and then transcribing into book form.  She does this for several residents here.

But most eat, sleep, watch television and play BINGO every afternoon.  Not much more than that.  It's a step down from living.  It's simply existing.  It's waiting to die.

Noel

[martin-w 3,238]

13 hours ago, birdguy said:

Define 'Star Trek style existence'.

 

I was joking, hence the emoji. 

In the Star Trek Federation, "money" seems to be an ill-defined concept. Quite how it would work, I don't know. It seems contradictory, on the one hand its claimed the "normal" use of money was abandoned and the federation favored a philosophy off self-enhancement, but then the Federation retained a currency based system using computer credits. Your guess is as good as mine. 

 

13 hours ago, birdguy said:

What do you do with your time?

 

Mess about with PC's, argue with you, various household tasks that have to be performed, walk along the coast, some resistance training, although I have a lower back injury so with care, study stuff that interests me, play chess on-line.  My OCD is dreadful at the moment, may have to go back on Fluoxetine, I used to not tell people about it, but these days I do, just in case I can help anyone who is also suffering. Mental health issues don't get enough attention. I live with my daughter of course, so we visit various places on the island at the weekend and visit Sark and Herm in the summer, a short ferry ride away.  

 

13 hours ago, birdguy said:

I don't fit anywhere anymore and people like me are warehoused in retirement homes until we die.  You get a feeling of uselessness and disconnected from the active world and in a society that looks strange to you.

 

I feel that it may be your psychological state that's disrupted presently. There are people of your age that still have enthusiasm. Maybe you should talk to somebody about how you feel. I'm sure there are things you could get involved in. I think, at present, you are seeing the glass as half empty rather than half full. Given my mental health issues, that I've had almost my entire life, I know all about negative mental attitudes. I also know that the brain is a remarkable organ, and the way you feel can and will change with the right approach.  

 

13 hours ago, birdguy said:

I'm one of the lucky few.  I have a talent for writing and story telling. 

 

Then why not dive into it with gusto? A very meaningful endeavor. 

Edited February 14 by martin-w

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

On 2/12/2024 at 11:16 PM, martin-w said:

 

The majority of the population were born here Mathew. They aren't milionaires. It's a small island, a lot of food and goods have to be shipped in, which increses cost. Just a basic supermarket shop is VERY expensive.  Shortage of housing leads to huge house prices and very high rental cost. Yes, there are wealthy people here, and there have been some famous ones, but the majority aren't.  Salaries are higher than UK but the cost of living is much higher too, so they have to be. Lots of service industry workers here. 

 

Most islands around the world are now unaffordable, Hawaii is the best example, native Hawaiian's can no longer afford the cost of living when wealthy mainlanders buy everything  up. New Zealand is a struggle too now when international wealth threatens to purchase all the property.

Access to health care is dwindling the world over, the wealthy fly into Johns Hopkins Hospital for the best treatment available meanwhile the average American drives over the Mexican border for more affordable treatments, all those Mexican border crossings are filled with clinics just over the border. Australians and New Zealanders do the same but fly into Bangkok instead. That's the world we live in, no longer affordable quality health care it is dwindling substandard care now. The patent holders of an anti aging treatment will offer that at Hopkins for the wealthiest around the world. I don't see it any other way.

[LHookins 3,103]

5 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

The patent holders of an anti aging treatment will offer that at Hopkins for the wealthiest around the world.

At one million dollars per dose.  Most of us won't have to worry about getting the treatment.

This might make for an interesting science fiction story, where "normal" people work hard their entire lives to make enough to get the treatment, only to find out in a twist ending that it has to be repeated every year.

Hook

[HiFlyer 9,361]

58 minutes ago, LHookins said:

This might make for an interesting science fiction story, where "normal" people work hard their entire lives to make enough to get the treatment, only to find out in a twist ending that it has to be repeated every year.

I read a story once (yeah I read a lot) where the available anti-aging treatment was part of your job benefits, like a pension plan that was paid into by company matching funds until you earned enough for the treatment....

[martin-w 3,238]

12 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Access to health care is dwindling

 

According to the WHO, healthcare coverage improved from the beginning of the century to 2015, but progress slowed from 2015. No improvement from 2019 to 2021. So I don't think its dwindled, Mathew, but it certainly hasn't improved at the rate required. 

 

12 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

Most islands around the world are now unaffordable

 

I'm not sure about most, but there are challenges for islands in terms of logistics, especially if it's a popular island due to being picturesque, low taxes, friendly people, low crime rate etc. Logistics are always going to make islands more expensive I would say. As for "wealthy mainlanders" we have a two tier system in Guernsey, a local market with cheaper house prices and an open market that's more expensive.  You qualify for local market if you work in a particular field, or are a family member. Trouble is, even the local market is crazy expensive, £609K is the insane average house price and you don't get much of a house for that. £1.4 million median for open market properties. At only 6 miles by 3 and 63,000 people, housing is in short supply, hence the prices. 

 

13 hours ago, Matthew Kane said:

The patent holders of an anti aging treatment will offer that at Hopkins for the wealthiest around the world. I don't see it any other way.

 

As I say, if Sinclair is correct, then even a high school student will be able to cerate the drug in his kitchen. Sinclair believes, according to his research, that it will be a simple, cheap drug. In fact there is evidence that we may already have antiaging drugs on the pharmacy shelves. Some are researching the drug Metformin and there seems to be significant benefits. Same for Rapamycin and others.

https://fortune.com/well/2023/02/23/reverse-aging-breakthroughs-in-science/