How to get the best image quality using DLDSR+DLSS

[MarcG 3,034]

11 hours ago, Farlis said:

This is a gamechanger for VR.

I don't understand why Asobo haven't made those newer versions available by default yet. The image clarity is clearly superiour to their highest default DLSS settings.

How are the Garmin screens with this trick? With regular DLSS they're blurry and quite frankly awful so I never use it, so I'm interested to know if they're now sharp like TAA which is what I currently prefer, if so then I'll give this a crack later, thanks

[Farlis 2,320]

37 minutes ago, MarcG said:

How are the Garmin screens with this trick? With regular DLSS they're blurry and quite frankly awful so I never use it, so I'm interested to know if they're now sharp like TAA which is what I currently prefer, if so then I'll give this a crack later, thanks

In VR I had no problem reading them with my aging Rift S. Haven't flown anything with the G1000 yet, only the GTN750.

[mmcmah 446]

9 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

That sounds promising. I realized G-Sync was not working as I started to notice screen tearing. It took a lot of digging around in inspector, NCP as well as searching the net before I decided to go back to native resolution.

And just like that, the monitor’s refresh rate started to sync with the GPU. I then switched back and forth between native and DSR-resolution. Every time I used DSR, G-Sync was broken (i.e. monitor stayed at a fixed Hz). And this was despite the NVidia indicator showing G-Sync in green on MSFS.

You're so detailed on your write up that I assume this wasn't overlooked, but did you change the monitor's resolution in the NCP to match the DLDSR resolution you're using in the game? I find that if you don't do that, the monitor refresh gets stuck at whatever it's set to in the system.

[Cpt_Piett 4,825]

5 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

But basically, it seems we are upscaling then downscaling, then doing it all again with these modes mixed, so that is why the GPU has to work harder.

This could very well be the case. Anyhow, it's good to have so many options to choose from, but it can also get unnecessarily confusing and complicated. Besides, TAA is quite old now, whereas DLSS is a novel tech that keeps getting improved by Nvidia. 

I actually did a google search in order to find out how old TAA is. The first page of results was filled with links re: Trent Alexander-Arnold... Btw he's 25 years.

Researching the two different AA techniques and there seems to be no consensus of which is the better alternative. However I did find some interesting info in this PC Guide article from oct '23:

Quote

TAA is good but not better than DLSS. That’s because TAA can also introduce some problems, such as blurring, ghosting, and temporal artifacts. It can muddle the picture massively due to its temporal components. Hence, when something is moving, the image gets very blurred. This is especially true with lower resolutions, or when features like motion blur or depth of field are turned off.

I loaded up the sim, choose DLDSR @ 1.78x and took two screenshots (using Xbox game bar). I converted from .png to .jpg versions before uploading to Imgur, in order to not flood the thread with unnecessarily high quality images. The first one is DLSS ultra quality. Second one is TAA. 

To be honest, I struggle to see much of a difference. But looking very closely,  the G1000 PFD has some slight blurring in DLSS. This can be seen especially on the slip-skid indicator (above the attitude indicator) which is moving ever so slightly horizontally. However, when looking at the knobs (NAV, HDG), I think the DLSS version looks a tad better. The difference is very subtle though, IMHO. 

In any case I think updating the DLSS version could be worth it to ensure MSFS use the most up-to-date DLSS implementation. 

2 hours ago, mmcmah said:

You're so detailed on your write up that I assume this wasn't overlooked, but did you change the monitor's resolution in the NCP to match the DLDSR resolution you're using in the game? I find that if you don't do that, the monitor refresh gets stuck at whatever it's set to in the system.

*blushes* Well, you know that did the trick! And now I wish that I could edit OP...

I didn't do this in the first place, as I was able to select DSDLR resolutions in MSFS even though Win resolution was set at native. But apparently in order for G-Sync to work, MSFS and Win resolution have to be the same. 

Edited February 24 by Cpt_Piett

[Bob Scott 7,755]

12 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

*blushes* Well, you know that did the trick! And now I wish that I could edit OP...

I didn't do this in the first place, as I was able to select DSDLR resolutions in MSFS even though Win resolution was set at native. But apparently in order for G-Sync to work, MSFS and Win resolution have to be the same. 

 

If you post the edited version here, I'll do an admin edit to replace the original post for you.

[turbomax 3,307]

2 hours ago, mmcmah said:

change the monitor's resolution in the NCP to match the DLDSR resolution you're using in the game?

great post! thanks.

[Cpt_Piett 4,825]

48 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

If you post the edited version here, I'll do an admin edit to replace the original post for you.

Thank you so much for this, much appreciated! See the edited version in the post above. 

[Farlis 2,320]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

To be honest, I struggle to see the difference.

Not on still images. Just look at anything that moves in DLSS, like a speed tape, the numbers when you dial in a new altitute on the mcp, scrolling in the OFP on an onboard tablet. That's when the image gets blurred.

[Cpt_Piett 4,825]

16 minutes ago, Farlis said:

Not on still images. Just look at anything that moves in DLSS, like a speed tape, the numbers when you dial in a new altitute on the mcp, scrolling in the OFP on an onboard tablet. That's when the image gets blurred.

I get this. I've been using DLSS since I got the 4090 in 2022 though, and even though there can be some ghosting, it's honestly not a huge distraction for me. Btw see my edited post above where I compare DLSS and TAA images. 

Also, I just did what you said i.e. change the altitude (in the PFD) and the numbers remain clear. 

Edited February 24 by Cpt_Piett

[MarcG 3,034]

6 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

@Cpt_Piett Thanks for the info.  

Like with anything, there is always a trade off.  There are no free lunches for us unfortunately.  

I tried this many moons ago, and I thought I would try it again, but the result is the same.  It makes my GPU hot and noisy, so I changed back.
It is good to have these difference options highlighted and available to try though, as some peoples results may vary.

But basically, it seems we are upscaling then downscaling, then doing it all again with these modes mixed, so that is why the GPU has to work harder.

My view is that by the time you have done all this, you may as well have just selected TAA.  The visual results (apart from some shimmering at different distances) are very much the same for me, including performance.

It is interesting to try these different modes though.  Although I have an Nvidia card, I found I was able to select AMD FSR2 (in DX12), and that was actually very good looking at 4k. 
It was very sharp, and the runway lights etc. looked much better for some reason.  Once again though, no real performance, heat / noise / benefits.

The real answer of course is for Asobo to fix the blurry flat screens in DLSS.  Apparently it isn't an Nvidia issue at all.  Asobo do know about it, and it seems to require some kind of masking to the screens in MSFS to get it right.
I dare say as much as they pushed DLSS jointly with Nvidia, they will probably leave this now or it is low priority for them.  Maybe it is an improvement for MSFS2024 - that will be interesting to see.    Hmmm...

 

I just did some testing with this in VR (Reverb G2), personally I play a lot of other games so globally changing settings isn't ideal but I'd thought I'd give it a go and ultimately it makes no difference in VR for me, I agree that TAA is simply the best for avoiding those blurry screens with DLSS which Asobo/nVidia have never fixed (last spoken about in a Q&A in 2022, where did you hear it isn't an nVidia issue?).

Whilst DLSS does indeed give better performance the trade off with straining my eyes or having to zoom into the Garmin Screens to read numbers (that are otherwise clearly visible in TAA without zooming) is not worth the slight performance boost.

[mmcmah 446]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Piett said:

This could very well be the case. Anyhow, it's good to have so many options to choose from, but it can also get unnecessarily confusing and complicated. Besides, TAA is quite old now, whereas DLSS is a novel tech that keeps getting improved by Nvidia. 

I actually did a google search in order to find out how old TAA is. The first page of results was filled with links re: Trent Alexander-Arnold... Btw he's 25 years.

Researching the two different AA techniques and there seems to be no consensus of which is the better alternative. However I did find some interesting info in this PC Guide article from oct '23:

I loaded up the sim, choose DLDSR @ 1.78x and took two screenshots (using Xbox game bar). I converted from .png to .jpg versions before uploading to Imgur, in order to not flood the thread with unnecessarily high quality images. The first one is DLSS ultra quality. Second one is TAA. 

To be honest, I struggle to see the difference. The G1000 PFD looks about the same in both images. However, when looking at the knobs (NAV, HDG), I think the DLSS version looks a tad better. 

In any case I think updating the DLSS version could be worth it to ensure MSFS use the most up-to-date DLSS implementation. 

*blushes* Well, you know that did the trick! And now I wish that I could edit OP...

I didn't do this in the first place, as I was able to select DSDLR resolutions in MSFS even though Win resolution was set at native. But apparently in order for G-Sync to work, MSFS and Win resolution have to be the same. 

Like you, I decided to try different settings in order to compare the following:

TAA / TAA 130 (suggested by someone in this thread) / DLSS DLAA / DLSS Quality / DLSS Ultra Quality (0.80x) / DLSS Ultra Quality (1x)

I tested them for performance as well as visuals. These are MY qualitative evaluations as well as my quantitative results on my machine (13990K, 4090 (undervolted, increased memory clock), dual 4k screens, 64GB of memory) at iniBuilds' KJFK spawning into ramp position A90 with the Kodiak 100 and looking at the terminals and the city (here is part of the screen capture at DLSS Ultra Quality 1x: https://imgur.com/5pfwYr0)

Resolution	Rendering	FPS	Sharpness	Far Detail	VRAM Used	GPU Usage	GPU Temp	CPU Usage	CPU Temp
TAA	3840x2160	44	Excellent	Not great	14.9	58%	55	14%	56
TAA 130	3840x2160	44	Very good	Oversharp	17.5	73%	62	14%	57
DLSS DLAA		44	Good	Good	15	60%	56	14%	56
DLSS Quality		44	Medium	Medium	14.5	59%	50	14%	58
DLSS Ultra Quality 0.8x	3072x1728	43	Good+	Good	14.7	62%	50	13%	56
DLSS Ultra Quality 1x	3840x2160	44	Very Very Good	Good	15	70%	57	14%	54
	DLDSR 1.78	FPS	Sharpness	Far Detail	VRAM Used	GPU Usage	GPU Temp	CPU Usage	CPU Temp
TAA	5120x2880	43	Excellent+	Medium	19	77%	64	17%	56
TAA 130	5120x2880	38	Excellent+	Oversharp	21.5	100%	67	15%	58
DLSS DLAA		44	Very good	Good	17.1	80%	64	17%	60
DLSS Quality		44	Good	Good	15.9	60%	53	12%	58
DLSS Ultra Quality 0.8x	4096x2304	43	Very good	Excellent	18	62%	60	12%	57
DLSS Ultra Quality 1x	5120x2880	43	Excellent	Excellent	18.4	79%	66	15%	59

 

I took screenshots of the Ultra Quality options at 4K and DLDSR 1.78x at both rendering multiples. It takes a lot of pixel peeping to make a determination between them, but for some reason when I select to insert images from URLs here, it doesn't work. So, I am not going to post the images, but the differences are very subtle anyway. What @Cpt_Piett showed above in terms of sharpness I can corroborate and would add the differences I was looking at were sharpness and details outside of the cockpit as well.

To that end, everyone loves to say TAA is the best for cockpits and glass screens. Can't argue the opposite there, but outside the cockpit, TAA is terrible. It loses a lot of detail in the medium distance and even more in the far distance. It also leads to shimmering.

Of the DLSS options, clearly the Ultra Quality option generates the best looking graphics while also not being as heavy on the system as something like TAA 130. Personally, I will be using DLSS Ultra Quality on either at DSR1.78x and 0.8x or 1x as there is a small difference between them, but it's there.

Edited February 24 by mmcmah

[Cpt_Piett 4,825]

47 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

What @Cpt_Piett showed above in terms of sharpness I can corroborate and would add the differences I was looking at were sharpness and details outside of the cockpit as well.

To that end, everyone loves to say TAA is the best for cockpits and glass screens. Can't argue the opposite there, but outside the cockpit, TAA is terrible. It loses a lot of detail in the medium distance and even more in the far distance. It also leads to shimmering.

Wow, thanks a lot for this very detailed analysis!

I looked into this further and come to the same conclusion as you: in the far distance, DLSS ultra quality is better (I see you've tried both 0.8x and 1.0x). I think subjective preferences will play a huge part in this though. 

47 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

but for some reason when I select to insert images from URLs here

Click on the top right corner of an image in imgur, click on the three dots, get share links then BBCode (Forums). I'm aware of the screenshot limit though, so I won't post any more images in this thread. 

Below are two screenshots zoomed in to compare detail in the far distance. 1) DLSS ultra quality 0.8x 2) TAA. What I notice with TAA is the lack of detail in the far distance, as well as uneven edges (look at the road with yellow curbs).

Edited February 24 by Cpt_Piett

[Bob Scott 7,755]

A revised post has replaced the thread starter per OP request, and has also been reposted into the Tips and Tricks subforum.

[Cpt_Piett 4,825]

Thanks so much for your help @Bob Scott!

[turbomax 3,307]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:02 AM, Cpt_Piett said:

Here's a guide on improving image quality for those using DLSS. 

and the "Best MSFS instructional lecture 2024 Award" goes to Capt_Piett  🍾

a fantastic step-by-step instructional post, by which all others will be measured.

it also works with VR, albeit without Framegeneration, as we know. around 10 fps increase DLSS vs TAA. Haven't decided though if the loss in clarity is worthwhile, in VR this is even more obvious as you sit closer to the instruments.

HP Reverb G2 - 9.3 million total pixels, 90 Hz

55 fps TAA 

 

65 fps DLSS