Hi,

I can't find a solution to this but at least I know the problem now.

Issue:

Default 747. Can assign free axis to spoiler but it jumps around and cannot be set in one position or armed/deployed even with mouse control and all assignments deleted.

Found cause. Spoilers in default 747 are HARD CODED to ONLY deploy at the same time as reversers. You can use your controller axis or keyboard (default key F2) and they WILL deploy EVENTUALLY when reversers kick in.
This is a BUG (dual assignment issue) because the sim lets you assign an axis to spoiler axis but it will NEVER work as again they hard coded to reversers. Fully tested this and this applies in all scenarios.

I am using the latest release version BTW.

Because of this issue it is of course impossible to ARM spoilers or use them in flight as an actual speedbrake. So their ONLY function is fully deployed during reverse thrust application.

I have posted this as a reply on official forums.

PS So far this is ONLY an issue with the default 747. The 787 and Airbus versions spoiler can be assigned to axis and work perfectly as well as all my addons.

PPS if I am missing something obvious feel free to enlighten me I DID search for an hour before posting this!

1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

Found cause. Spoilers in default 747 are HARD CODED to ONLY deploy at the same time as reversers. You can use your controller axis or keyboard (default key F2) and they WILL deploy EVENTUALLY when reversers kick in.
This is a BUG (dual assignment issue) because the sim lets you assign an axis to spoiler axis but it will NEVER work as again they hard coded to reversers. Fully tested this and this applies in all scenarios.

Not my experience at all.  I can and do use the spoilers independent of thrust reversers. 
-B

3 hours ago, btacon said:

Not my experience at all.  I can and do use the spoilers independent of thrust reversers. 
-B

Did you configure any assignments yourself or are you using defaults? Also which controller for throttles?

This is the first time I have used the plane as I am going through all defaults assigning basic controls and views so I can do some challenges later.

My spoiler has zero assignments except keyboard NUM DIVIDE (which also does not work).

ONLY in this plane, I removed it after initial install then put back for challenges. 

1 hour ago, sloppysmusic said:

Did you configure any assignments yourself or are you using defaults? Also which controller for throttles?

This is the first time I have used the plane as I am going through all defaults assigning basic controls and views so I can do some challenges later.

My spoiler has zero assignments except keyboard NUM DIVIDE (which also does not work).

ONLY in this plane, I removed it after initial install then put back for challenges. 

Assigned to my Spoiler Key on my Turtle Beach Velocity One Yoke & Throttle. using MSFS Default "Toggle Spoiler".A short video demonstrates.  Action starts just after the one min mark (1:15)

 

 

Edited April 3, 20242 yr by btacon

44 minutes ago, btacon said:

Assigned to my Spoiler Key on my Turtle Beach Velocity One Yoke & Throttle

Thanks for that but I am trying to assign an AXIS like in every other plane where it works. I know a key/button works to turn them full ON or OFF as the / key is used as default. Cannot use them as variable speedbrakes that way though. I need the axis to work as in the plane and all other planes it is an AXIS. There is also an axis you can assign in settings but it does not work!

I think it's only the spoiler axis that this applies to.

The spoiler shortcut work fine for me when I press the default '/' key or press an assigned button.  One press deploys fully, a further retracts fully.

Edited April 3, 20242 yr by JYW

Sorry for misunderstanding the gist of the issue.  Good luck with getting your axis to work. I used to use the trim axis on my V1 Yoke but found that axis and MSFS don’t get along so well at least for trim. I found that it almost always reset trim to zero with the slightest touch and I ended up going back to electrical trim UP/DOWN using a rocker switch on my yoke instead.
-B

Edited April 3, 20242 yr by btacon

36 minutes ago, btacon said:

Sorry for misunderstanding the gist of the issue.

No worries and I really appreciate the time you took trying to help me! Sorry it's been a LONG day configuring every single plane and when ONE plane works totally different to all the others it stands out and I was getting frustrated. The slats axis works great in PMDG 737 and JF F8 (it's essential there for speed control) so I've been spoiled (😌) in those planes I guess. Well, and ALL the other default jets!

One question I have hmmm. When you get a moment could you deploy reverse thrust on the 747 WITHOUT arming or using your spoiler key at all? I want to know if the reversers are linked to spoilers for everyone? I suspect they are! If you only use them on landing I might have freed up a button for you hehe :D!

On mine HOWEVER you deploy reverse thrust the spoilers pop up!

I will check. Don’t think they do but I’m usually looking atmthemRWY, not the wings when I deploy the reversers LoL

-B

15 minutes ago, btacon said:

I will check. Don’t think they do but I’m usually looking atmthemRWY, not the wings when I deploy the reversers LoL

-B

LOL! I don't want to mess up your safe landing you can check it anytime on the ground once engines are running 😄

10 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

LOL! I don't want to mess up your safe landing you can check it anytime on the ground once engines are running 😄

Heh, not intending to look whilst flying and that is why I’m sure Ive never noticed of the move on sync with TR! LoL

I was just flying the 747 tonight. I decided to be a masochist and use default ATC, which means I started my descent late and had to use spoilers. They worked fine without the engines being in reverse.

I did notice while sitting on the ground before the flight and testing to be sure my SPAD settings were correct that the spoilers would deploy whenever I engaged thrust reversers, but I could also operate them independently.

 

5 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

I want to know if the reversers are linked to spoilers for everyone?

They certainly should be. As per the real aircraft, spoilers will deploy for RTO or in case or forgetting to be armed on landing when two of the engines enter the reverse range. Spoilers are driven up when those two engines enter reverse, and likewise should be driven down when throttles are advanced towards the takeoff range (to prevent accidentally taking off with spoilers up).

As for the spoiler axis, both the 787 and 747 in the sim use the same underlying spoiler system, and are not hardcoded to reverse thrust. I just tried the spoiler axis (with an empty community folder and the default livery) and am unable to reproduce the issue; the spoiler lever moves throughout the range and can be clicked into the arm position via the axis.

I would suspect some kind of mod or livery conflict.

Edited April 4, 20242 yr by MattNischan

7 hours ago, MattNischan said:

As per the real aircraft, spoilers will deploy for RTO or in case or forgetting to be armed on landing when two of the engines enter the reverse range.

Now that is interesting thanks. When I was testing I noticed it took at least 2 reversers deployed to activate spoilers. I do know that if you have a hardware button assigned to something then you can't (usually) operate the VC button without said hardware (lights and avionics switches especially). I am wondering if my reverse assignments are preventing separate spoiler deployment IF they are linked in sim somehow. Once again ONLY with THIS plane. I only have the default livery installed.

Now I KNOW it works for some people WITHOUT using FSUIPC or SPAD but basic MSFS assignments I will take another look later.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice!

3 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

I do know that if you have a hardware button assigned to something then you can't (usually) operate the VC button without said hardware

I don't believe this is a limitation, no. I have lots of axis and button bindings but mostly still use the VC, especially in testing. There is nothing in the sim code that knows the difference between a button being pressed in the VC versus being pressed in hardware, they both trigger the same binding event.

3 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

I only have the default livery installed.

Have you tried with an empty Community folder?

3 hours ago, sloppysmusic said:

basic MSFS assignments I will take another look later.

This is an additional wrinkle that wasn't mentioned in the original post. It's possible that there is a conflict with some third party software here or that the binding being used is not correct.

We only can only say how it should work when using the official sim spoiler axis bindings, which are supported.

Edited April 4, 20242 yr by MattNischan