Exactly-Yes we need the smaller aircraft - the G1000 equipped Honda Jet released early on was a step in the right direction, but we also need a tech breakthrough.....those high end G1000-equipped panels on fast-moving jets are almost unflyable in any domestic urban areas, with real-world (not necessarily IMC)weather, and I'm not talking just at LAX or Houston Hobby. But if you can tolerate 9-12 FPS you go...Anyway, FSX still remains a GA sim for me, the exception perhaps being the new FTX scenery add-ons (Blue / Southern Australia only so far) with autogen set to zero. Adelaide to Melbourne is fun in the Overland heavies, as well as GA VFR roaming in the same area, which just barely keeps me from deleting FSX altogether.Just My 2 Cents,http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

>There is unfortunately no detailed information available. The>manual only says 4500 ft or longer. That's already a challenge>(at least for me ;-)).>>Alex@Alex, at max landing weight, landing distance is 3400ft so all 4500ft airfields are good. There is stack of performance information on the Cessna website, I was going to it here but its blocked. Just go to www.cessna.com and do a search. @bdincer, I spent most of the night trying to find that 'Smartcockpit' last night to point Alex to... glad you posted the link becasue I had lost it. Cheers,Butch

I still enjoy the heavies, especially landing in "zero-zero" conditions after an online atc-controlled route. Great fun landing several hundred tons of momentum essentially blind. That said, FSD is poised to release their version of the Lockheed Jetstar very soon:http://www.fsd-international.com/Hangar/Jetstar/That looks like it will be a fun one to take in and out of Aspen, London City, or say, Reno / Truckee, in FS9. In FSX, I bet it will do well in the Orbyx/FTX scenery areas. The avionics are older, but not so dated as to seem archaic for a glass cockpit guy like myself.Cheers,http://www.my-buddy-icon.com/Icons/objects/red_3d_plane.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

>@Alex, at max landing weight, landing distance is 3400ft so>all 4500ft airfields are good. >According to the Aircraft Operations Manual's Simplified Critera for full flap landing:1) Anti-ice systems off.2) Landing flaps full, approach flaps 15*3) No tailwind.4) No downhill runway gradient.5) Dry runway.6) Runway length - 4500 feet or longer.7) Altitude 2000 feet or below.8) 45* C or colder.At landing flaps 15*, maximum landing weight is 31,800lbs which lists landing distance as 3470. That's at temperature of 0* C. For every increase of temperature by 5* C, the length increases by ~70ft.So... Cessna is most definitely recommending 4500ft or longer, not shorter.

>>@Alex, at max landing weight, landing distance is 3400ft so>>all 4500ft airfields are good. >>>>According to the Aircraft Operations Manual's Simplified>Critera for full flap landing:>>1) Anti-ice systems off.>2) Landing flaps full, approach flaps 15*>3) No tailwind.>4) No downhill runway gradient.>5) Dry runway.>6) Runway length - 4500 feet or longer.>7) Altitude 2000 feet or below.>8) 45* C or colder.>>At landing flaps 15*, maximum landing weight is 31,800lbs>which lists landing distance as 3470. That's at temperature>of 0* C. For every increase of temperature by 5* C, the>length increases by ~70ft.>>So... Cessna is most definitely recommending 4500ft or longer,>not shorter.I wonder if you use spoilers with extend full flaps during landing for short runways? I have flown with Cessna 172 a lot in real life obviously no spoilers there. In FSX it seems like it is hard to slow these planes down even with reverse and spoiler, I always have to apply breaks a lot.

Hi Ed,thanks for the information. I also downloaded a few manuals from SmartCockpit but they contain only the simplyfied criteria (apart from that they are very detailed).If you look into Airliners.net or Flightaware you'll find that the Citation X really flies to airports with short strips. I have no examples around here but some really go below 4500 ft. And some have a displaced threshold that shortens the landing distance even more.When you land there better don't flare much. Touchdown, speedbrakes up, reverse and get the nose down quickly so that you can step on the brakes. I use full reverse until 60-70 knots then continue with idle reverse.Lots of fun, these landings ;-)I try to keep it as realistic as possible, that's why I'm looking for real flights or at least real destinations.Alex