My PMDG 777F still exhibits "the bounce" at certain times, even though I have the latest version installed. The autopilot was conducting a shallow turn in a short flight earlier today, and the power kicked in because the speed had fallen 5 knots below that on the MCP. However, as the aircraft rolled out to level flight, it started "bouncing" (pitching up and down numerous times). This is a massive immersion killer, and I wish that it could be corrected. Is anyone else still experiencing this problem?

I have posted this message on the PMDG forum.

Was this part of a full FMC route (Sid/Star/Approach) using LNAV/VNAV ?

No, it was a relatively simple circuit of an airport, but I was using LNAV and VNAV.

Edited yesterday at 05:40 PM1 day by Christopher Low

4 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

My PMDG 777F still exhibits "the bounce" at certain times, even though I have the latest version installed. The autopilot was conducting a shallow turn in a short flight earlier today, and the power kicked in because the speed had fallen 5 knots below that on the MCP. However, as the aircraft rolled out to level flight, it started "bouncing" (pitching up and down numerous times). This is a massive immersion killer, and I wish that it could be corrected. Is anyone else still experiencing this problem?

I have posted this message on the PMDG forum.

Unfortunately, this issue is directly related to the AFDS, FBW trim-speed logic, and the persistent pitch oscillations, "bouncing," and excessive control loading that continue to affect the entire PMDG 777 lineup.

I am not sure where the idea originated that this behavior is somehow normal or related to FMC programming, SID/STAR procedures, approaches, or LNAV/VNAV operation. The real aircraft simply does not behave this way in any phase of flight. A temporary 5-knot speed deviation is not unusual for an autothrottle system, but the recovery is smooth, controlled, and stable. Whether FBW logic is involved or not, the aircraft does not enter repeated pitch-up/pitch-down cycles, nor does it become unstable as a result.

What is particularly frustrating is the continued effort to attribute the problem to virtually everything except the underlying issue itself. Rather than acknowledging and correcting a behavior that clearly does not reflect the real aircraft, the discussion keeps being redirected elsewhere. Much like the longstanding LNAV issues, it seems far more convenient to assign blame to external factors than to recognize and address the root cause.

20 minutes ago, LRBS said:

Unfortunately, this issue is directly related to the AFDS, FBW trim-speed logic, and the persistent pitch oscillations, "bouncing," and excessive control loading that continue to affect the entire PMDG 777 lineup.

I am not sure where the idea originated that this behavior is somehow normal or related to FMC programming, SID/STAR procedures, approaches, or LNAV/VNAV operation. The real aircraft simply does not behave this way in any phase of flight. A temporary 5-knot speed deviation is not unusual for an autothrottle system, but the recovery is smooth, controlled, and stable. Whether FBW logic is involved or not, the aircraft does not enter repeated pitch-up/pitch-down cycles, nor does it become unstable as a result.

What is particularly frustrating is the continued effort to attribute the problem to virtually everything except the underlying issue itself. Rather than acknowledging and correcting a behavior that clearly does not reflect the real aircraft, the discussion keeps being redirected elsewhere. Much like the longstanding LNAV issues, it seems far more convenient to assign blame to external factors than to recognize and address the root cause.

Their hands are always full. Instead of methodologically going through each of their product eliminating any bugs, control issues (in case of the T7) before jumping onto the next one. Leaving them half finished, not fully refined and thus not up to the standard we were all used to. Look at Flight Factor in X-Plane, their 777 is receiving so many updates even though they clearly also wanna move to another type as well but yet if it’s unfinished, it’s unfinished DOT.

I feel bad for them, and disappointed as a user, as there is no other options than PMDG, and unfortunately I can’t vouch for their quality lately. Anyway I move on. Back to topic. Yes their T7 needs more refining - FACT.

2 hours ago, LRBS said:

Unfortunately, this issue is directly related to the AFDS, FBW trim-speed logic, and the persistent pitch oscillations, "bouncing," and excessive control loading that continue to affect the entire PMDG 777 lineup.

I am not sure where the idea originated that this behavior is somehow normal or related to FMC programming, SID/STAR procedures, approaches, or LNAV/VNAV operation. The real aircraft simply does not behave this way in any phase of flight. A temporary 5-knot speed deviation is not unusual for an autothrottle system, but the recovery is smooth, controlled, and stable. Whether FBW logic is involved or not, the aircraft does not enter repeated pitch-up/pitch-down cycles, nor does it become unstable as a result.

What is particularly frustrating is the continued effort to attribute the problem to virtually everything except the underlying issue itself. Rather than acknowledging and correcting a behavior that clearly does not reflect the real aircraft, the discussion keeps being redirected elsewhere. Much like the longstanding LNAV issues, it seems far more convenient to assign blame to external factors than to recognize and address the root cause.

I’ve noticed this lately in the sim. The plane is very pitch sensitive and trimming logic isn’t all that great. It behaves half conventional and half FBW, but does neither great. This becomes very apparent during approach with any wind. Gust suppression doesn’t appear to be modeled, and the plane gets unstable pretty quickly. I think I’m going to do a test in Direct mode to see if any augmentations are modeled, aside from the obvious ones like bank protection and TAC.

I do not remember a pitch oscillation problem during this stage of a flight in the P3D version of the 777F. It may have had one or two issues now and again during descent, but overall I actually enjoyed flying the 777F in P3D more than I am in MSFS 2024. In fact, this problem is going to relegate the 777F to the maintenance hangar for now. I will concentrate on flying several different variations of the 737, which (apart from the minor "turn wobble" issue) is more enjoyable and relaxing to fly. At least it does not have any FBW "logic"!

EDIT: On a side note, I had "bouncing" issues with the 747-400 in P3D, so I really hope that they make sure that this does not happen in the MSFS 2024 version of the aircraft.

Edited yesterday at 05:50 PM1 day by Christopher Low

19 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

this problem is going to relegate the 777F to the maintenance hangar for now.

For me—and certainly for anyone who has actually flown the real airplane—it's nothing short of disappointing that this product so poorly captures the aircraft. There is absolutely no justice done to this airplane in the way it was developed.

Those of us who had the privilege of flying the real aircraft know just how special it was. We loved it, respected it, and understood what made it unique. Seeing it represented this way is profoundly disappointing.

Sadly, I've reached the point where I can no longer justify keeping it installed. It's not sitting in the maintenance hangar waiting for fixes—it's gone from my PC entirely. That's how deeply disappointed I am with what this product has become.

2 hours ago, Balint Szarka said:

Their hands are always full. Instead of methodologically going through each of their product eliminating any bugs, control issues (in case of the T7) before jumping onto the next one. Leaving them half finished, not fully refined and thus not up to the standard we were all used to. Look at Flight Factor in X-Plane, their 777 is receiving so many updates even though they clearly also wanna move to another type as well but yet if it’s unfinished, it’s unfinished DOT.

Unfortunately, 100 % correct. Lately, in pursuit of a $, quality, and fidelity they were known for, it's not there anymore.

Edited yesterday at 06:32 PM1 day by LRBS

I am actually afraid of putting this (and any feedback / critique) on their forum. Feels like everyone would literally jump on me discrediting anything I'd bring up. Like those people there don't want to see the reality...

They could care less tbh, They have "testers" who supposedly fly the aircraft but idk how it got thru and they said yup this is fine.

I think they see $$$ with xbox/ps5 now and just want to pump things out to make money and not do it right. You saw how much the community begged for the RTE2 version of the 737 FMC and they finally did it 15+ years later.

If they dont have to do something they wont.

Also not sure how they didnt see the pitch up around 100ft, Go watch any 777 takeoff cockpit video and that does not happen.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Mclovin10

20 minutes ago, Mclovin10 said:

Also not sure how they didn't see the pitch up around 100ft, Go watch any 777 takeoff cockpit video and that does not happen.

I assumed that "pitch up" shortly after take off was because I activate the autopilot quite early, but you are saying that this is an actual flaw in the flight dynamics of the PMDG 777?

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Christopher Low

42 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I assumed that "pitch up" shortly after take off was because I activate the autopilot quite early, but you are saying that this is an actual flaw in the flight dynamics of the PMDG 777?

Yes, Go fly the 777 manually and dont engage auto pilot. The plane will pitch up a ton once above 100ft agl or so.

Ah, now that I think about it, that "pitch up" happens before I activate the autopilot. I do not remember that happening in the P3D version of the 777.

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Christopher Low