>I'll tell you what's really despicable is that the airlines>like USAirways, United, Delta, who declared bankruptcy were>allowed to come out of it without honoring their pension>commitments and turning it over to the federal government, who>in turn were forcing these pilots to retire before 65 (60) and>then has the nerve to invoke the rule about denying full>pensions for those who leave before age 65, resulting in a>3/4 loss of their pension they worked for. Talk about the a>Catch 22!! These airlines should not have been permitted to>come out of bankruptcy unless they resumed their pension>commitments that they owe these pilots and other employees>affected.What you just described is why age 65 came into being. Old pilots, who didn't save a dime, have 3 houses, boats, etc. being mad because they didn't get a pension. So guess what, we'll screw the younger guys. And they did.

>the economic hit will never be recovered on the backside. you>want to sit at the regionals and be abused for 5 years longer,>thank Prater and have at it. FedEx and UPS are NO LONGER>HIRING so those codgers sitting sideways can rebid over. thank>god i escaped the regionals.To be honest the very few regional pilots I hear complaining about this sound like the greedy ones to me. Its all about them and their desires, and they don't actually care what is good for the industry as a whole.With any luck this change will in time help slow new hiring at the regionals a little, and these sketchy under 1000TT minimums will go away. I am ten times more worried about 500hr FO's as opposed to the effect of 60-65 year old captains!

That's the problem with unionized occupations, or ones that work like a union. Instead of promoting on merit, there is a strict seniority system in place. The younger workers are screwed, under the theory that "you'll get yours later". That of course is a good way to prevent any competition, and promote "solidarity" which is in the union's (not the good/hard worker's) interest.I happen to have a friend who is an MD11 captain and is directly affected by this. He is planning to fly until 62. IIRC he told me once that there was a pilot in his company who had reverted to 727 flight engineer at 60 to continue to fly. Maybe the age 60 rule didn't apply there?scott s..

>That's the problem with unionized occupations, or ones that>work like a union. Instead of promoting on merit, there is a>strict seniority system in place. The younger workers are>screwed, under the theory that "you'll get yours later". That>of course is a good way to prevent any competition, and>promote "solidarity" which is in the union's (not the>good/hard worker's) interest.>>I happen to have a friend who is an MD11 captain and is>directly affected by this. He is planning to fly until 62. >IIRC he told me once that there was a pilot in his company who>had reverted to 727 flight engineer at 60 to continue to fly. >Maybe the age 60 rule didn't apply there?while i agree in principle with you, "merit" simply cannot be measured in an airline environment. can you measure getting from a to b safely with a merit based system? i can't. you're either getting there safe or your not.

>To be honest the very few regional pilots I hear complaining>about this sound like the greedy ones to me. Its all about>them and their desires, and they don't actually care what is>good for the industry as a whole.>>With any luck this change will in time help slow new hiring at>the regionals a little, and these sketchy under 1000TT>minimums will go away. I am ten times more worried about>500hr FO's as opposed to the effect of 60-65 year old>captains!that's why there is a CA there. the old stooge is the CA in the other scenario.i do agree though with the wunderkids flying out there. go instruct. learn how to fly for goodness sakes. you need 1200 hours to fly boxes but not people, huh?

>>while i agree in principle with you, "merit" simply cannot be>measured in an airline environment. can you measure getting>from a to b safely with a merit based system? i can't. you're>either getting there safe or your not.Isn't that why they have line checks? Is airmanship equal among all pilots? Customer service? CRM?scott s..

You sound like a Virgin America pilot...Airmenship?Hopefully we all get to the same places in the same safe manner I don't know how you could judge that one.Line checks? Everything is pretty much standard. What would set someone apart from the rest?Customer service?You are in the sky cubicle for hours at a time with only a few minutes before each turn to work on the customer service. You can't really get up and ask all the passengers if the ride is smooth. Plus the pilot's service is to get you there intact not baby you.CRM?Again this all should be standard stuff taught in classes and sim sessions this shouldn't differ between crews.I feel that merit systems are unsafe. The only way to stand out is if you rush procedures, cut corners and make risky decisions to get in earlier. All this to make an extra buck or move one number up in front of the guy who was flying the aircraft safely.Those are some of the reasons I feel the merit system are not good for airlines.

>I am not 59 so it's a moot question.Probably my question is moot. Certainly your answer says a lot.Marco

If current trends prevail, we should see a large increase in air travel in the coming years. That woluld create a need for more pilots. As a matter of fact, a number of airlines are having a hard time trying to fill their rosters. Here is an interesting article on the topic;http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2007/1...askthepilot256/"Allow me to introduce you to a friend of mine, an aspiring airline pilot whom we'll call Kevin. About two weeks ago Kevin was hired by a US Airways Express affiliate. Later this month he'll begin first-officer training on a highly sophisticated 50-seater. Kevin, who is 29, has a grand total of 300 hours in his logbook. Three hundred. Thinking back to the mid-1980s, to the point when I had 300 hours, the prospect of applying to an airline -- any airline -- was unfathomable."So, I don't think allowing pilots to work an extra 5 years will have a dramatic effect on new pilots trying to find work in the industry.Dave Fisher

>Isn't that why they have line checks? Is airmanship equal>among all pilots? Customer service? CRM?whose going to measure airmanship, customer service, or CRM? the company? hahaha! they give you perhaps 1/2 hr on customer service in training and a 2 hr video on CRM. maybe a meeting with the flight attendants.line checks? the point is "standardization". everyone is DOING THE SAME THING. same call outs, same procedures, follow the SAME manual. if we're all doing that what's the differentiation?what measures airmanship? safety? the faa? economics like fuel management? guess which one an employer is going to push.merit cannot work in a large airline. there is truly one measure and 99.99999% of the time it's done on a daily basis. the other 0.00001% will lose their jobs or sadly die performing them.if our government cares, why do they force controllers to retire at 57. they have more of a shortage there than they do in the flightdecks.

>If current trends prevail, we should see a large increase in>air travel in the coming years. That woluld create a need for>more pilots. As a matter of fact, a number of airlines are>having a hard time trying to fill their rosters. Here is an>interesting article on the topic;>>http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2007/1...askthepilot256/>>"Allow me to introduce you to a friend of mine, an aspiring>airline pilot whom we'll call Kevin. About two weeks ago Kevin>was hired by a US Airways Express affiliate. Later this month>he'll begin first-officer training on a highly sophisticated>50-seater. Kevin, who is 29, has a grand total of 300 hours in>his logbook. Three hundred. Thinking back to the mid-1980s, to>the point when I had 300 hours, the prospect of applying to an>airline -- any airline -- was unfathomable.">>So, I don't think allowing pilots to work an extra 5 years>will have a dramatic effect on new pilots trying to find work>in the industry.>>Dave Fisherthe only airline pilot shortage in this country is at companies that treat the pilots like garbage. the mesa's, tsa, gojets, etc. where people want to work, fedex, ups, swa, they've all stopped hiring.

Yeah thinking back then... well was late 80s for me with the 300 hrs... yeah they wanted like 2500+ hours. Dang... was the Land of Far Far Away...Rob O.