I bought this software thinking that it would be a very realistic add on but I just dont see whats so special1. Firstly, there are no taxi instructions and I dont think AI traffic is coordinated. If you are at a unfamiliar airport , you would always get taxi instructions to the active. Am I making a mistake or miss something on this one.2. I get to the active and nothing happens. al i see is the little window , no instructions, clearance or other info other than the item "main " in the window. Hitting that does nothing.3. Does fs9.1 ground coordinate with the rc4 . In other words if I get clearance from rc4 , will the taxi instructions from fs9.1 be coordinated with the clearance.If you are at a large airport then it is nearly impossible to find you way ( night even more difficult). so what give with the interactivity of all of this.Perhaps im just expecting this to live up to its adverts.So far im not impressed and I think that fs9.1 atc has many significant coordinated feature that rc4 does not have. Can they be used together?

Taxi instruction: You mean ground telling you which taxiways to take to the active on initial clearance? Then I think you are right, that's something the default ATC has but not RC4. Well it's nothing an airport diagram won't fix for you. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think taxi instruction is a mandatory service at airports in real life. I don't know about airports like JFK but at smaller airports I've never heard ground actually telling pilots what taxiways to take. I always use airport diagrams if I don't already know where I am going. For me, if the ground starts talking to me about taxing, that means I am doing or about to do something wrong. If you are talking about progressive taxi...I don't think ground is required to provide that service even if you ask for it. The busier the airport the more so that is. I feel the attitude is "why are you giving me this extra work because you didn't do your homework when I have 20 other planes to watch over? I am just not going to do it for you." So likely the response you get can be something like "progressive taxi service not available".Jason Zhang

1) no, we don't do taxi instructions. we concentrated on a lot of areas, but taxi instructions wasn't one of them. i'm caught off guard by the need for this by so many. i just pull up a mini map, figure out how to get from where i'm at to where i'm going. and if the ai are active, i just follow them. maybe in 5.0 we'll do more ground stuff2) sounds a bit odd. are you using add on scenery? if so, did you rebuild the scenery database? are you sure you weren't told to line up and wait? if you're told to line up and wait, and you don't, i'll sit there forever waiting for you to do that. if you want, you can send me a log by starting rcv4.exe, clicking debug, load the .pln, set your options, and start your flight in fs. go to the runway, and "experience" the problem for a couple of minutes. then click quit radar contact, zip up the log, and send it to [email protected] - i can pretty quickly tell you what is going on.3) not understanding your question. if ai are taking off and landing 36, i will send you to 36. since i'm not giving taxi instructions, there is no taxi coordination with ground. but i will pick the same runway as the ai are usingif v4 is living up to your expectations, send me an email, [email protected]. i'm not sure about adverts you are referring to. i believe we live up to and exceed what we've stated v4 does.if you think fs atc is better, be sure to send me an emailjd

thanks for the quick reply, amazingly fast , I thank you for the fast response. Your reply and the prior response talk about progressive taxi, but in all honesty, I fly into all sorts of airports and I am used to ground saying something like "cfxxx taxi 36l via alpha ,bravo and hold short." This seems so normal to me , I am shocked that it would not be expected at any controlled airport . I would not expect this at an uncontrolled facilitysee the rest below>1) no, we don't do taxi instructions. we concentrated on a>lot of areas, but taxi instructions wasn't one of them. i'm>caught off guard by the need for this by so many. i just pull>up a mini map, figure out how to get from where i'm at to>where i'm going. and if the ai are active, i just follow them.>maybe in 5.0 we'll do more ground stuffPK why dont you let the fs atc provide taxi instructions to the active. I dont know if rc4 will tell you to hold if an aircraft is crossing your path or when crossing an active runway etc.>>2) sounds a bit odd. are you using add on scenery? if so, did>you rebuild the scenery database? are you sure you weren't>told to line up and wait? if you're told to line up and wait,>and you don't, i'll sit there forever waiting for you to do>that. PK i will check this.>>if you want, you can send me a log by starting rcv4.exe,>clicking debug, load the .pln, set your options, and start>your flight in fs. go to the runway, and "experience" the>problem for a couple of minutes. then click quit radar>contact, zip up the log, and send it to [email protected] - i can>pretty quickly tell you what is going on.>>3) not understanding your question. if ai are taking off and>landing 36, i will send you to 36. since i'm not giving taxi>instructions, there is no taxi coordination with ground. but i>will pick the same runway as the ai are usingPK all i was saying is will fs atc provide instructions to the active based upon the clearance provided by rc4, will rc4 COORDINATE WITH fs9 so that you can use both in harmony or are they completely separate . ie. ground in rc4 taxi to 12 ground in fs taxi to 12 via alpha bravo etc and hold short 12 back to tower . rc4 flight x is at 12 ready for departure.a and then use rc4 for the flight>>if v4 is living up to your expectations, send me an email,>[email protected]. i'm not sure about adverts you are referring>to. i believe we live up to and exceed what we've stated v4>does.>I think this rc4 is great so far but interactivity and coordination with all of the real life things going on at the airfield and in the air are what will make it great. >if you think fs atc is better, be sure to send me an emailIn truth its not a resonable question because they dont do the same thing. One seems canned ( fs9) and your is intuitive and interactive but in my view it is missing some of the real life exp that is part of filing and opening an ifr flight from start to finish.two last things,,Is it possible to print the button assignments so i can use them in flightand can i have "auto pilot response on" and "text display" at the same time.thanks >>jd

jd,Concerning #1 - I think what most people would like, myself included, which would make the whole RC4 concept even more real, is not the pink/purple taxi guide, but real taxi instructions, such as "taxi to runway 36, using taxiway A, A4, C, etc." These are the instructions you get in the real world. Can you imagine the confusion, even at a smaller a/p like KCLE, if all Ground said was taxi to the active r/w, and taxi to the ramp, with everyone taking their own way! My shortest path may not be the best for traffic flow. Also a little ground control to prevent the collisions with ai, such as FS9 does. If there were a simple, smooth way to join the two, and use FS9 while on the ground, and then RC4 once you get turned over to the tower, and for the rest of the flight, would be perfect, in my opinion.That being said, the more I use RC4, the more I like it in the air. I t is way better than FS9's ATC. If the ground could be worked out, in my opinion it would be the best FS9 Addon developed!Rick

>pk ..well said and exactly,,, this is the part of the program that is sadly lacking and is so much a part of the real life exp. I think there is an update available for rc4 , is any of this covered in the update. jd,>>Concerning #1 - I think what most people would like, myself>included, which would make the whole RC4 concept even more>real, is not the pink/purple taxi guide, but real taxi>instructions, such as "taxi to runway 36, using taxiway A, A4,>C, etc." These are the instructions you get in the real world.>Can you imagine the confusion, even at a smaller a/p like>KCLE, if all Ground said was taxi to the active r/w, and taxi>to the ramp, with everyone taking their own way! My shortest>path may not be the best for traffic flow. Also a little>ground control to prevent the collisions with ai, such as FS9>does. If there were a simple, smooth way to join the two, and>use FS9 while on the ground, and then RC4 once you get turned>over to the tower, and for the rest of the flight, would be>perfect, in my opinion.>>That being said, the more I use RC4, the more I like it in the>air. I t is way better than FS9's ATC. If the ground could be>worked out, in my opinion it would be the best FS9 Addon>developed!>>Rick

we're working on something for speech fluidity.there is a 4.1 "folder", but what you're wanting for ground interaction is too big for a bug fix release.will look at it as a 5.0 feature, if i ever figure out how to read scenery files, which are going to change again anywhere, i hear.jd

so i think i figured this out, in order to use contact with ground instructions , i did the follwoing and it worked , very simple..and if you have any other ideas let me know1. I simply changed the call sign in rc4 and fs4 to the same thing,ie ( aa 1000 )I set got clearance from fs9 ground lfr, and taxi instruction to the active etc. and fs9 gave me the runway,then I switched to ground in rc4 and used the same runway , fs9 gave me,I recvd taxi instructions, and ifr clearance that got me to the active and my aircraft was recognized at the threshold . ai traffic knew i was there because fs9 monitored all ai traffic, and as soon as the in flight portion began , rc4 took over and looked after everything ,, post take off...landing taxi instructions were the same but reversed. ,,,,,have fun!

Hi there,This sort of thing was discussed a bit in the following thread:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho..._id=14798&page=A good tip is to have msatc tuned to comm2 so you can work it independently of RC.Basically play around with it. RC and MSATC can be made to complement each other quite well on the ground then, as you say, you can just get rid of MSATC when airborne.All the best,John

it will be work on for RC5 ? ...god... and how much will I have to spend again in order to have what default MS ATC have... ?ok on the other parts RC leaves msatc far behind and there's nothing to criticize about RC ... but msatc gives the taxi clearance, based on the AFCAD files... after building up the scenery, why shouldn't RC be able to give that little information... or use the msatc information for this purpose ?RC is great... but it left me a feel of unachived work ... (if it was version 1 I could have understood) hope the multiple updates will get rid of those gaps.still a great job, thanks to the team.

>ok on the other parts RC leaves msatc far behind and there's>nothing to criticize about RC ... but msatc gives the taxi>clearance, based on the AFCAD files... after building up the>scenery, why shouldn't RC be able to give that little>information... or use the msatc information for this purpose?There is a subtle but significant point that must be understood regarding the MS AI engine and MS ATC. The ability for MS ATC to provide detailed taxi instructions is a by-product of the capability of the AI engine. The AI engine governs all aspects of AI aircract movement - in the air and on the ground. In other words, the AI engine must be able to determine how the AI is to get from the gate to the runway so that it can direct the AI aircraft movement. Once that capability exists, it is a simple matter of translating the routing to directions based upon the "tags" that designate the individual taxiways.RC4 does not contain such an AI engine, and building one, or its equivalent in terms of capability, is a significant undertaking.-michael

Can't it just get the information from the default FS9 AI ? there is already some sort of interaction... as far as I know, that sort of things aren't RSA encrypted :)sure if JTDLLC are building one it will probably (surely) be far better than the default one...but as we wait for that, a simple "copy/paste" of the FS taxi instruction would already be ok...if you don't deactivate the FS ATC sound, you can hear both RC and FS ATC at the same time... giving the same kind of instruction (with the realistic feeling on the RC side :) ) ... so why not having that information on the taxi instruction.I'm not asking for that stupid pink line on the ground nor for a progressive taxi, just a "taxi to and hold short of runway 06L via echo bravo lima" for example.... RC is able to simulate emergencies, to offset, alternate, change destination, give atis informations and so on... why shouldn't it be able to give taxi instructions (which are based on the AFCADs am I wrong) ?though don't think I'm whining for that little detail or somewhat else... I'm pretty satisfied with RC but when you claim to be so realistic on some points... such missing parts leave a feeling of unachived.

i didn't think ground taxi instructions were going to be such a big deal, so i never pursued it.plus i don't know how to do it, right now. but now i know it's a big deal, and i'll figure it out, given time.so bear with me, until thenjd

>... RC is able to simulate emergencies, to offset, alternate,>change destination, give atis informations and so on... why>shouldn't it be able to give taxi instructions (which are>based on the AFCADs am I wrong) ?You are not wrong, you are just misunderstanding the fundamental issue and difficulty.As JD pointed out, RC4 was not ever going to do everything; priorities were set and we were more interested in getting great ATC while airborne before addressing great ATC on the ground. It's simply a matter of priority and time.-michael

I really think the rc4 exp is much better than fs atc on the air. it reacts to the real situation as you fly, ut might even give you a hard time if you stray off course. but the ground thing could be improved.I note that jd understands that lots of us would look forward to the same rc4 exp , gate to gate. I seem to have it all working fs and rc4 together with a bit of manipulation , one questionHow can I set com 2 to fs atc so that it will change freq automatically on com 2 , in the normal circumstance fs atc works on com1 , can i specify this somewhere in the options menu of atc.( anyone know how to do this). at the moment i am using com1 for rc4 and com 2 for fs atc , setting same call sign in both programs and setting the audio panel to both..Thoughts??