RC5 - Feature Requests

[canuk22 29]

One feature I would like to see and maybe it has been mentioned already, is when the aircraft has been cleared to line up and go. Often when I go watching at the airport I see this, the aircraft gets onto the runway and goes, no pause. Of course it's because there is no incoming traffic or it's beyond a certain distance. That would be cool.

[jd 57]

One feature I would like to see and maybe it has been mentioned already, is when the aircraft has been cleared to line up and go. Often when I go watching at the airport I see this, the aircraft gets onto the runway and goes, no pause. Of course it's because there is no incoming traffic or it's beyond a certain distance. That would be cool.

cleared for immediate takeoff is coded and testedjd

[canuk22 29]

cleared for immediate takeoff is coded and testedjd

awesome!!

[WallysWorld 4]

awesome!!

I second that awesome!That will be a very nice addition.

[chrispeel 0]

I raised a similar topic about runway utilisation a while back.It concerned aircraft being told to line up and wait while another is completing it's landing roll and another is at say 4 mile final(or whatever the controller thinks is appropriate)To JD,did you say you were considering this for V5.?I raised it earlier in this thread but never saw a reply.Pan Pan Pan raised a similar isue too.EGKK is a very good example in the real world.They pack em in.

[WallysWorld 4]

I don't know if being cleared for immediate takeoff in RC5 will affect AI planes because isn't it hardcoded into MS for AI planes to pause before starting their takeoff roll?

[jd 57]

I raised a similar topic about runway utilisation a while back.It concerned aircraft being told to line up and wait while another is completing it's landing roll and another is at say 4 mile final(or whatever the controller thinks is appropriate)To JD,did you say you were considering this for V5.?I raised it earlier in this thread but never saw a reply.Pan Pan Pan raised a similar isue too.EGKK is a very good example in the real world.They pack em in.

i believe the answer was i was going to follow what the controllers on the beta team tell me.

I don't know if being cleared for immediate takeoff in RC5 will affect AI planes because isn't it hardcoded into MS for AI planes to pause before starting their takeoff roll?

not sure i follow. you will be cleared for immediate takeoff if there is an ai on final, but sufficient time (by a calculation) for you to line up and take off. heavies will never be given an immediate takeoff. and if ai are on the runway taxiing off, you won't be cleared onto the runway (assuming the 1 plane on the pavement rule applies. if i can line up while you are taxiing off, i'll do that, but you won't get immediate takeoff in that situation either)or did i miss somethingjd

[WallysWorld 4]

jd,My comment was meant to ask if the AI planes can get immediate takeoff clearance from RC5 and if so, will the AI planes immediately start their takeoff run without the delay that they do right now in at least FS9. From what I see in FS9, all AI planes taxi onto the runway, line up and then pause for about 5-7 seconds before spooling up for takeoff even though ATC had already given them clearance to takeoff well before the long pause.

[chrispeel 0]

i believe the answer was i was going to follow what the controllers on the beta team tell me.not sure i follow. you will be cleared for immediate takeoff if there is an ai on final, but sufficient time (by a calculation) for you to line up and take off. heavies will never be given an immediate takeoff. and if ai are on the runway taxiing off, you won't be cleared onto the runway (assuming the 1 plane on the pavement rule applies. if i can line up while you are taxiing off, i'll do that, but you won't get immediate takeoff in that situation either)or did i miss somethingjd

IN UK they will tell you that it is OK to give an aircraft a "line up and wait" while one is still rolling after landing.I look forward to the new version of RC with this feature incorporated.If it can be done knowing that you have to deal with the AI as best you can.But in the EU you will never receive a landing clearance until the runway is totally clear."Continue approach,one to depart" or "expect late landing clearance,one to depart"is the usual message. In the US you will be cleared to land,even if you are number 2 or 3 it seems.

[ilarikousa 0]

In the US they can clear you to land technically no matter what your position in sequence. It's called anticipated separation. In layman's terms, it means the controller anticipates that the runway will be clear (or in some cases, other separation criteria met) by the time you touch down. If that is not the case when it actually is about to happen, they make you go around. So they kinda give you clearance beforehand.

[PeteP 2]

But in the EU you will never receive a landing clearance until the runway is totally clear...

I'm afraid that's not entirely correct. In the UK - and I think we're (just about) members of the EU - we have 2 types of landing clearance that can be issued while the runway is still occupied by landing or departing traffic in order to maximise runway use.The first is the "after the landing/ departing" type which is available at certain approved airfields such as Heathrow and Gatwick and it's used as follows:

(a) When the runway-in-use is temporarily occupied by other traffic, landing clearance will be issued to an arriving aircraft

provided that at the time the aircraft crosses the threshold of the runway-in-use the following separation distances will

exist:

London Heathrow and London Gatwick

(i) Landing following landing - The preceding landing aircraft will be clear of the runway-in-use or will be at least

2500 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use.

(ii) Landing following departure - The departing aircraft will be airborne and at least 2000 m from the threshold of the

runway-in-use, or if not airborne, will be at least 2500 m from the threshold of the runway-in-use.

(b) Reduced separation distances as follows will be used where both the preceding and succeeding landing aircraft or both

the landing and departing aircraft are propeller driven and have a maximum total weight authorised not exceeding

5700 kg:

London Heathrow and London Gatwick

(i) Landing following landing - The preceding aircraft will be clear of the runway-in-use or will be at least 1500 m from

the threshold of the runway-in-use.

(ii) Landing following departure - The departing aircraft will be airborne or will be at least 1500 m from the threshold of

the runway-in-use.

This procedure will be used by DAY only under the following conditions:

(i) When the reported meteorological conditions are equal to or better than a visibility of 6 km and a cloud ceiling of

1000 ft and the Air Controller is satisfied that the pilot of the next arriving aircraft will be able to observe

continuously the relevant traffic.

(ii) When both the preceding and succeeding aircraft are being operated in the normal manner. (Pilots are

responsible for notifying ATC if they are operating their aircraft in other than the normal manner; eg final approach

speed greater than 160 kt).

(iii) When the runway is dry and free of all precipitants such that there is no evidence that the braking action may be

adversely affected.

(iv) When the Air Controller is able to assess the separation either visually or by means of Aerodrome Traffic Monitor.

The phraseology used with this type of clearance is:

...... (call sign) ....... after the landing/departing ....... (Aircraft Type) cleared to land Runway ....... (Designator).

The second is the "land after" type and this is used as follows:

A landing aircraft may be permitted to touch down before a preceding landing aircraft, which has landed, has vacated the runway provided that: a) The runway is long enough to allow safe separation between the two aircraft and there is no evidence to indicate that braking may be adversely affected; b) It is during daylight hours; c) The preceding landing aircraft is not required to backtrack in order to vacate the runway; d) The controller is satisfied that the flight crew of the landing aircraft will be able to see the preceding aircraft which has landed, clearly and continuously, until it has vacated the runway; and e) The flight crew of the following aircraft is warned.The phraseology used is:

...... (call sign) ....... (runway designator)...... land after the .......(Aircraft Type).

The main differences between the two are that the "land after" can only be used between 2 landing aircraft and, the main point, responsibility for separation remains with the controller during an "after the landing/departing" clearance but passes to the commander of the second landing aircraft when the "land after" is used.I hope this clears up the situation about landing clearances for an occupied runway. They are the UK procedures but I've no doubt that other European states have similar procedures.Pete

[chrispeel 0]

Thanks for clearing that up PeteA comprehensive explanation of a conditional landing clearances.if you can get these into V5 it will be good.

[PeteP 2]

if you can get these into V5 it will be good.

It would indeed... but don't hold your breath. :( Pete

[ronzie 21]

I assume full aircraft type (heavy vs lighter jet) is considered. Whats the roll out of an A380 for T/O and Landing?2500 meter = 8202.1 feetI assume if a departing aircraft does not have a clear runway by V1 the T/O is aborted.

[chrispeel 0]

I assume full aircraft type (heavy vs lighter jet) is considered. Whats the roll out of an A380 for T/O and Landing?2500 meter = 8202.1 feetI assume if a departing aircraft does not have a clear runway by V1 the T/O is aborted.

No take off clearance until runway is clear.