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Guest smjfreeman

High End PC = Still low frame rates!

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Hi all,Since PMDG launched the 747, I have had several changes to my PC. All for the better.Please take my word for it when I say the system is "clean". I'm in IT for my business, and I see cacked up machines daily. Let me assure one, that this is not.The specs are under my name below, I'm getting between 15-25 FPS, and it occasioanlly drops to below 10FPS, which seems rather feeble for the power I'm running here.I see others reporting similar framerates for machines with less than half the power of mine, and still using the VC.I run the VC, with Track IR (of course), and run a single monitor setup.If I drop the resolution, the framerates dont budge, if I move away all the clouds/AI, the frame rates don't budge.... I just cannot get any more fluidity out of the bird - and I really want to!I have noticed this latest graphics cards CUTS through clouds far better than anything else I've had. You can do what you like with the clouds, and the FPS still wont budge from 20ish.Is anyone getting the FPS they are wanting? Thats using the VC ideally?This PC does everything else flawlessly, are there some hard limits in the performance of the queen?CheersMike FreemanDevon, UKAMD 4200 dual coreLanParty RDX200 ATI Crossfire m/board2Gb Geil RAM (soon to be upgraded)ATI 1800XT 512Mb gfx2x 200Gb RAID124" 1920x1200 - virtual cockpitCH Yoke, pedals, Throttle QuadrantAerosoft MCP,EFIS,EICASTrack IR (vector expansion)Homemade switch panel (from PS2 board)PMDG 744pax, FS2004 9.1Active Sky 05

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Hey Mike,Also make sure that when you are flying to kill any un-necessary apps, Windows likes to drain processes as I am sure you are aware. I can't remember, someone had a utility that would kill all but the esential processes. As always make sure you have the latest drivers, the only thing I see on your hardware list that might be a clue is that ATi does not seem to run as well optimized for Autodesk's 3ds Max. (the main engine for FS) But that was more of the older cards, an 1800XT should be killer. I don't think Flight Sim takes advantage yet of dual core CPU's or GPU's, also nothing with 64bit yet. The resolution you are driving is my biggest wonder, you are pushing slightly better then HDTV so that is probably your biggest area of slowdown in my opinion. Also make sure you have the 1.01 update, there was some issues with FPS. I know you probably don't want to hear this, but drop the resolution down to maybe 1600x1200 and see what your FPS do.

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Mike has already stated that reducing the resolution does not help.Mike,If you have the 400F installed, be sure to install the 1.01 update.Also, try setting your PMDG VC and Gauge framerates to their lowest (I believe this is 5).- Bill

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Mike-I'm going to tack onto the other poster that you should check for other apps.... Especially if you are running anything programmed by Norton/Symantec....You can find a post I made about 4 months ago regarding my experience with Norton/Symantec. DUmping their software off this machine resulted in almost a 50% boost in FPS.FWIW: I'm running a 3.8Ghz with 4GB of mem- a 7800GT and screen resolution at 2560 x 1600, with a second monitor holding the FMC/Overhead running at 1280 x 1024..... and my VC fps in the 400F are routinely around 28 in heavy scenery w/weather- and 60+ in flight.I run a super clean machine as best I can... YOu have to in order to enjoy MSFS the right way..So it can be done!

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Hi Robert, just to claify. With Symantec/Norton software, was it sufficient to just disable it, or was it a case of removing it altogether? I'm looking at their internet security suite but will shop elsewhere if the application itself kills the machine's performance just by being there.Also, with reference to an earlier poster's comment about an app that closes all but the essential processes, does anyone know what it was called? I need something like it pretty badly, lately I've added a few add-ons into the mix and I've found my performance creeping down towards 'unacceptable'.

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>I'm looking at their internet security suite but will shop>elsewhere if the application itself kills the machine's>performance just by being there.Mark,My experience is that disabling Norton does not help really. Or another thought, if you have to disable the software anyway, why bother with installing it?I've been a long time Norton user for some years. That was until last year. Their annual updates just used more and more resources form your PC and finally last year I've had enough. I dumped everything being Norton from my two computers. My notebook now starts Windows basically in half the time it used to do before.And as far as MSFS goes, use the Windows XP firewall and install a free anti virus programme, such as Avast Anti virus. This is more than enough protection. Since the XP firewall is built into the operating system it does not need as many resources as an add-on firewall would. So you can and should keep it running during your flights.But Anti virus you can disable during flight, your PC won't get infected if you do not mail or surf during a flight. Remember there's still the firewall protecting your PC. I have my flightsim PC running without any Anti virus for a year now and never had any form of virus on it, so the windows firewall is doing it's job nicely. And the money you've saved by not buying Norton should be enough for the upcoming MD-11 ;)Regards,Markus

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I had a nasty scare with a trojan that got onto my system a few months back and took a fair bit of effort to clear. I was running Avast and had the Windows Firewall on, I don't browse dodgy sites or anything like that either (honest!), so I'm a little wary of sticking with just Avast and the MS Firewall.So far with the Norton trial version installed I've found that, yes, FS performance went through the floor. With it disabled there wasn't much in the way of a FPS hit, at least as far as I can see. However if people have found that by it merely being installed the system slows down then I'll reassess. As always it's a balancing act between keeping my system clean and keeping my system fast!And don't worry I'll be a starter for one MD-11 thanks. :)Anyone who hasn't seen the ITVV MD-11 programme would be well advised to do so, I wasn't too fussed about the MD until I saw that programme, awesome bird.

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Mark,too bad about that nasty trojan. I am really happy with the combination of Avast and XP Firewall. Then again no software can protect you 100%. The problem with Norton is you can't really completely disable it, there's always some sort of left-over running in the background. But as I said what good is Norton for if you have to disable it anyway when flying... Looking at it this way you'd still be safer sticking with the XP firewall than going the Norton way as you don't have to disable your firewall. Anyway as a general rule, never ever connect your PC to a broadband internet connection without any firewall running. This really is dangerous. I know most of the time this is not realy a problem as intelligent modems come with a built-in firewall. But if you don't have one of these and disable your Norton firewall... bingo!And about that ITVV MD-11 programme, a great one indeed! Trust me soon you won't like any other way of flying than the Douglas way! ;)Regards,Markus

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I have a fast computer and the pax 744 works fine. but the freighter gives me less than 10 FPS all the time, even with clear weather and no traffic. and even with the 1.01 updateoh well, its fitting that the addon ive wanted for ages doesnt work right on my machine!

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I agree that Norton is a hazard. I use the free version of AVG's antivirus and my router's hardware firewall. Works fine. Just for fun, run the highest resolution possible and shut OFF anti-aliasing. See what that does. The LOMAC guys swear by it . . . but they (ahh, we) have an especially 'challenging' software enviroment.

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Hi,Thanks very much for the interest in this, and your replies.I don't use Norton or any other system leech. I actually remove this rubbish from about 10-20 machines per week. It really is dack. As is McAfee. I use AVG for virii, and its highly efficient and doesnt slow a machine up.For the record, I have no AV on this machine anyway and disable many services and eye candy.I have dropped the resolution to 800x600 and the FPS is still low!! Can you beleive!I've ruled out the gfx card as being the bottleneck, I will change the RAM to Mushkin extreme next I think. Will place an order today.Thanks,Mike Freeman

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FS can kill any machine, it is always about playing with the options and adjusting the configuration downwards until you have an acceptable level of performance. Do not delude yourself into thinking there is that perfect setting for everything. What might work for you in 90% of the area will crater in the remaining 10%. Also, do not fall prey to the "other guy" gets better syndrome. Unless you are running with his exact FS9.CFG, you can not even start to compare speed.I'm sitting here with an AMD FX60 with 2 Gigs of Ram and RAID0 SATA300's and an ATI 1900 XT. It looks pretty at 1920 x 1200 with max video effects (6x AA, 16x AF, etc) but ... I am locked at 20 fps. Some areas of the world *will* crater my performance. I either avoid them or reduce my visibility range and/or weather (clouds) to deal with it.Cleaning up eye candy in Windows XP is not going to make any real difference on any modern system. Disabling virus Scanners will make a huge diffence as all those scenery files coming off your hard disk and going into memory non-stop as you fly have to go through whatever protection you have running and if you do not have a VERY fast set of drives (read that raid0 striped set or SCSI array), you will stutter.Ray

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Mike,are you by any chance using programmes like Ultimate Traffic or Traffic 200x? As long as your AI-Traffic is not hand-made it will bring every system to it's knees. Regards,Markus

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Guys,Just a note with respect to virus scanner performance.It is well-down in the idustry that what kills run-time performance is the *ON ACCESS* scanners. That is because: whenever a process opens a file, an ON ACCESS virus scanner will scan it for viruses. Most virus scanner come pre-defaulted to "uber paranoid" mode, in which they will scan EVERYTHING, including data files that clearly cannot contain a virus.You are far better off uninstalling the ON ACCESS part of the virus scanner, and scheduling regular ON DEMAND scans. Please note that just disabling the ON ACCESS scanner is NOT sufficient in all cases: you should really uninstall it.- Bill

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no need to uninstall, just run FS Autostart and select that service to stop when flying

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Ray,I am shocked you think 20fps is acceptable for your hardware. Its even faster than my kit!I think I'll stop buying flight sim gear now, sell what I have - and buy Air Force One. I may have enough left over for a pint on the way home.I'm not falling prey to the "other guy gets better", but I'd like to know how Randy gets 60fps in the air with a slower PC than mine, whilst running a higher resolution. I'm not disputing this, merely trying to get on par.Because I use the VC with a headtracker, fluidity is vital - double imaging gives me headaches, as it did to the many real pilots who trained on inferior sims unable to cope with 60Hz. (I know, as I helped develop the largest military flight sim in europe).So in order to avoid the bonce-ache, I want the VC as smooth as possible, and will stop at nothing to get a steadyish 30fps. I've ordered 2Gb of Mushkin Redline RAM today, at

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It is a recurrent nightmare....not even the high end rigs are capable to get rid of the "low FPS on VC" issue !! I have a pretty fast machine which I keep "superclean": AMD 4800 , 2G Corsair TWIN, ASUS X1900XTX , two installation of XP with one just dedicated only to FS9 (operating system on one drive and FS on the other). Pretty good machine, yet what I am getting on the Queen VC is huge fluctuations in FPS, ranging from 15 to 35 (not stutters, just fluctuations), regardless of weather, scenery and Graphic card settings. Usually what happens is FPS in the low end for a few seconds after switching to VC, then jump to 30 and more (unless I am on the ground in very detailed addon airports), then after some time back to the low end and up again after a while. Even with no AI traffic, addon airports are generally killers, while 3d clouds, even the high resolution ones (512x512) are not an issue.Outside view is on the 50 to 60 FPS range.Switching off the unnecessary software does not have a significant impact..I use Windows firewall and AVG free antivirus. They may be switched on or off...no change at all.What I can't explain is why the system is unable to maintain a stable FPS rate even if the boundary conditions do not vary at all, or in other words why once 30 fps are achieved and maintained for some time, all of a sudden they spontaneously plummet to 15, without any significant change in the other parameters that could justify such a drop.If somebody finds a solution or at least an explanation I'd be grateful..!Regards

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Hi MikeI dont have anu ideas as to what is wrong...but clearly there is a bottleneck somewhere in your system. I have somewhat similar problem in my system although not so bad.I'm operating with four screens:- 3 1024*768 displays for PFD-ND-EICAS(UP-LOW)/OHP/Console-THQ-WxR-etc.- 1 800*600 mini TFT for my own "HW CDU"I have discovered the following (applies to QOTS 1.1 not the 400F)The following panels seem to incur major FPS loss:- OHP- Right CDU (Very bad cut... to my surprise)- WxR (I use RXP WX-500)I know this information is not to much use for you perhaps...but just goes to tell that the QTOS is a very processor intensive aircraft. Its also a known fact that FS9 relies very much on the CPU to give a good FPS count. So to much "pure CPU" activity just running the sim wil because if the apparent design of FS9 give you a FPS cut.Perhaps before you buy anything you might want to take a look at thishttp://www.avsim.com/pages/0306/FSGS/fsgs.htmIts a review here form AVSIM and it might give you another view on how to deal with your problem.I guess everything just goes to tell that even if you buy everything to the best specs you can still get "unlucky" and get a system that contains bottlenecks.Both the blessing and the curse of our hobbyBest regardsMichael ChristiansenKarup, Denmark

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>I have a fast computer and the pax 744 works fine. but the>freighter gives me less than 10 FPS all the time, even with>clear weather and no traffic. and even with the 1.01 update> Like the user that posted the above text, I too have zero problems with just the 744 PAX version installed. With the 744F installed my frames go from 3.5 to around 19. And they vary inexplicably when the aircraft is stationary and nothing CPU intensive is happening. I'm not pointing fingers, but this only occurs with the 744F version so I'm thinking some of us are experiencing a bug?

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I've wrote about this in another thread. I'm seeing the same fluctuations in VC framerates with the updated 1.01 version of the Cargo 744 (PAX is fine). Framerate fluctuations seem to be from the 'ISFD' gauge update that doesn't seem anyway related to the VC problems some of us are having. I've disabled this gauge in the 'panel.cfg' only to find the same framerate problems from version 1.00. All the update did for me was caused the problems mentioned above. You are getting fluctuations because the 'ISFD' gauge is programmed to jump around with its display setting and therefore cause inconsistencies in smoothness all around in the 744F's VC...I'm sorry PMDG but I know of no other way to explain this. Shutting down the 'ISFD' gauge doesn't improve anything on my end much less letting it run which really causes framerates fluctuate...

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That's right Alex but most don't get it that the virus scanning software is not the problem here. I use FSAutotstart which shuts off my virus software (F-Prot Version 2.6) and still retain problems with VC framerates once in FS (once again every other add-on including the PAX 744 doesn

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Or it could be a combination of both the 'ISFD' gauge and another gauge...

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