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Guest SIX

YOUR Longest PLANNED PMDG 747-400(F) flight

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Guest SIX

What is your longest PLANNED flight you have ever successfully PLANNED out and accomplished. It can be in either the pax or the F.Remember, "successfully PLANNED" is the key word and here is what that means:A) FAA requires minimum fuel for International flights to be 24,000 lbs. I will let you slide to 10,000 lbs or at LEAST enough to keep the warning off of the EICAS saying "low fuel." :( Give me your stats: (such as)PAX or F, and the livery (tail #'s welcome): Here I am with the F and I am flying Cargolux LX-OCV.Route Information:WRRR TO KLAXLIPO1C.LIPOT W41 MKS A450 UNZ A450 MACAM 20E64 23E68 25E73 27E78 29N76 31N71 33N65 34N59 35N53 36N47 37N41 37N35 BLUFF R464 BEBOP CYPRS.LEENA4 KLAXWeights: ZFW: 436,810PLW: 468,810PFW: 363,200 (Planned fuel weight)AFW: 360,500 (Actual fuel)PGTW: 832,010I am doing a Bali (WRRR) to KLAX right now, at 7,734nm and ETE of 16:05, but I have all ideas I am going to make it at about 16:20. I should land with about 34,100 lbs of fuel, as estimated right now. I have actually done more miles than this, but always either had crazy fuel warnings or overloaded the plane or other problems associated with POOR PLANNING. I have carefully step climbed as profiled.C) Give me your tools: That was using the manual and TOPCAT to do the calculations for fuel and take off, respectivly, and FSBuild 2.2 to do the route. I planned for FL370, but I am already there and I am half way out so I will be on up to Fl410 for the flight cruise, before all is said and done. D) You land with no fuel warnings, such as the "tank/engine." The fuel system must have been managed for "tank to engine." In other words, you didn't just get it in the air and leave and let it fuel warning run wild.E) No "Pause at TOD."IN OTHER WORDS, your a stickler for details and you PLANNED this gig! :)Just curiuos to know how many people out there really do more than just fly this bird!Wilson HinesMy Blog: http://www.wilsonhines.com --------------------------------------http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/837438/3074.png

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Guest Jacob Lee

Nice thread! My longest: KSFO-YSSY (Sydney) with passenger version. Qantas livery. I used this site for the route (it provides routes that the real-world flight used): http://flightaware.com/analysis/route.rvt . Route: GAPP3.BEBOP R464 BAART R464 BAKON R464 BRADR R464 BITTA CARRP 15N/162W 10N/165W 05N/170W 00N/175W 05S/180E 10S/175E 15S/170E 20S/165E 22S/163E ISTEM 30S/155E MARLN5 YSSY I don't have the weight specifics, but fuel was at 95% on takeoff. Cruise was at 40,000 feet. Had one "fuel/eng" warning but I resolved it and had no other warnings throughout the flight. Time enroute was around 14 hours.

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>What is your longest PLANNED flight you have ever>successfully PLANNED out and accomplished. It can be in>either the pax or the F.On it right now...KEWR to OMDB>>Remember, "successfully PLANNED" is the key word and here is>what that means:>>A) FAA requires minimum fuel for International flights to be>24,000 lbs. I will let you slide to 10,000 lbs or at LEAST>enough to keep the warning off of the EICAS saying "low fuel."FMC is calculating 26,000lbs roughly on arrival>>>:( Give me your stats: (such as)>PAX or F, and the livery (tail #'s welcome): Here I am with>the F and I am flying Cargolux LX-OCV.Emirates Sky Cargo 744F>>Route Information:>WRRR TO KLAX>LIPO1C.LIPOT W41 MKS A450 UNZ A450 MACAM 20E64 23E68 25E73>27E78 29N76 31N71 33N65 34N59 35N53 36N47 37N41 37N35 BLUFF>R464 BEBOP CYPRS.LEENA4 KLAXRoute is NEWARK7.GREKI J75 BOS ALLEX N79B YQX (CURRENT RW NAT TRACK Z) DOLIP UN521 NERLA UM142 BERAD UN490 TERPO UM616 LERGA UM728 KISTO UP160 MEDAL UM729 PNZ UM603 SOR UL982 CRN UM601 LCA UR655 BALMA R655 CAK J222 BASEM R785 ZELAF UR785 RASLI UP559 RATUN R219 TUGOS A791 DESDI>>C) Give me your tools: >That was using the manual and TOPCAT to do the calculations>for fuel and take off, respectivly, and FSBuild 2.2 to do the>route. I planned for FL370, but I am already there and I am>half way out so I will be on up to Fl410 for the flight>cruise, before all is said and done. Used FSBuild 2.2.2 (beta). Used the PMDG744 performace file with the weights changed to reflect the BOW of the 744F >>D) You land with no fuel warnings, such as the "tank/engine.">The fuel system must have been managed for "tank to engine." >In other words, you didn't just get it in the air and leave>and let it fuel warning run wild.But of course not..fuel managed accordingly>>E) No "Pause at TOD."Heck noEric


Eric Fisher  

 

 

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Hey Wilson,Don't have the details since I'm at work, but my longest flight in the 744 was KLAX to YMML. Seems like I got there a bit thin on fuel :-)Scott


Kendall S Mann

Still Telling Pilots Where To Go!!

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Guest

Eric, can you post the change to the pmdg performance file to reflect the freighter?

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Alex,Just change the weight to match the freighter BOW of "363454" or look at the "Aircraft.cfg" file to get the correct weight for the -F version. Do not change the ZFW from the FSBUILD form, but match the FMC instead with your weight sheet from the -F loader. This will give you a closer fuel burn fromn the PAX-F version of the FSBUILD performance. ThnxGus

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Guest iflyc77

VHHH-KORD - dont have the exact route but i was reasonably within FAA limits on fuel and within a few thousand of what i planned to arrive at flying the 744 in New United colors. I also watched 4 full lenth movies on the way over.... i bet the real long haul pilots wish they had a DVD player on the flight deck. lol

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>Nice thread!>> My longest: KSFO-YSSY (Sydney) with passenger version. Qantas>livery. I used this site for the route (it provides routes>that the real-world flight used):>http://flightaware.com/analysis/route.rvt .>> Route: GAPP3.BEBOP R464 BAART R464 BAKON R464 BRADR R464>BITTA CARRP 15N/162W 10N/165W 05N/170W 00N/175W 05S/180E>10S/175E 15S/170E 20S/165E 22S/163E ISTEM 30S/155E MARLN5>YSSY>> I don't have the weight specifics, but fuel was at 95% on>takeoff. Cruise was at 40,000 feet. Had one "fuel/eng" warning>but I resolved it and had no other warnings throughout the>flight. Time enroute was around 14 hours.I did a similar KLAX-YSSY. I departed at the real life time (also Qantas) and slept about half of the way. It wasn't time to go tank to engine well into my next waking day. I thnk it was about 2PM the next day when it finally got there.


Tom Landry

 

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Guest SKireyev

I figure you meant longest non-stop flight. I did one of the longest commercial flights there are, being Quantas's flight from YSSY to EGLL. But in real-life, the flight number I flew stopped over in Hong Kong for 2.5 hours for refueling. So, I guess, my longest non-stop was from VHHH to EGLL. Since it's nowhere near maximum range, I had 24K plus a little bit of contingency left over, but I was running close to 24K, since I had to divert around a storm front over the Ural Mountains. No time accelleration, no pause at TOD. Just a long Saturday in front of the computer. Cheers,

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Guest benhoffman

The comment that the FAA requires 24,000lb minimnum landing fuel for an international flight interests me.I know of two -400 operators who use 12,000lb and 14,000lb as MLFPart 121.645 states the following fuel is required for flag operations(1) To fly to and land at the airport to which it is released;(2) After that, to fly for a period of 10 percent of the total time required to fly from the airport of departure to, and land at, the airport to which it was released;(3) After that, to fly to and land at the most distant alternate airport specified in the flight release, if an alternate is required; and(4) After that, to fly for 30 minutes at holding speed at 1,500 feet above the alternate airport (or the destination airport if no alternate is required) under standard temperature conditions.I did always wonder how PMDG came up with the number of either 18,000lb or 24,000lb.However, 121.639 says the following is required for domestic operations, 45min of reserve fuel is requiredMy methodology is to use the 10% rule as MLF on flag operationsAnyway, ... my longest flight would be HKG-ORD, UA896, N195UAPayload:357 Passengers18 Crew Route:OCEAN1A ELATO A1 APU B576 CJU A586 INTOS B467 DE B233 ODORA B337 UHMG G212 UHMA B244 OTZ J502 FAI J515 YXY NCA13 YQD J596 YWG J25 MCW.JVL4Distance:7,246nm (wind corrected)FuelTOTAL: 379,730lbRSV: 47,900lbDEST ORD: 329,320lb10 PCT: 31,700lbHOLD: 9,000lbALT DTW: 7,200lb30 TAXI: 2,500lbWeights:PZFW: 481,868lbPTOW: 858,899lbPLW: 519,979lbD-ALT Airports:KDTW, KMKER-ALT Airports:RTCP, RJAA, UHPP, PANC, CYVR, KSEA, KSLCTimes:Dispatch begun at 0745zOn the flight deck at 1025zOut of the gate at 1050zOff the ground at 1121zOn the ground at 0051zIn at the gate at 0111z Tools:FSBuild 2.2RouteFinderAviation Weather Center (www.aviationweather.gov)Charts (high enroute and terminal) by Jeppesen (www.jeppesen.com)Fuel planning by the PMDG -400 manual and FAR requirements

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im interested to see what your initial cruize level is especially for the really long flights. On the flights i have flown i have never flow over FL390 i guess this is where detailed planning comes into play.


Paul McMahon

Ireland

747400.jpg

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Guest wisborg

I know this one doesn't fulfill the requirements, since1: I didn't make it to the destination, but had to deviate to an airport closer by.2: Landed with 12,000 lbs of fuel (which however is within the regulations for landing at an alternate airport, I guess)I wanted to attempt doing Sydney (YSSY) to Copenhagen (EKCH) without neither PAX nor payload. I loaded as much fuel as it was at all possible and took off following a route planned with Routefinder (http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/). In the start the FMC estimated that I would be able to make it with just enough fuel to avoid problems (although not nearly within regulations of course), however the head wind became increasingly worse and around the time I left Australia it seemed clear that I probably wouldn't make it.Finally somewhere over the western part of India, I think, I decided it wasn't worth trying to land without the engines running (the FMC predicted zero fuel midway through Poland, so probably around the time the start of descend should start). Instead I chose to deviate to Moscow (UUEE), which was no problem to reach.I chose the to aim for such a long flight, since I anyway needed to stay awake pretty much the whole time, since I was finishing an exam work, so the step climbs and changing of fuel settings were performed according to schedule.Data for the flight:Cockpit entered at 03:10ZTaxi started at 03:32ZTake off at 03:42ZTouch down at 19:29ZCockpit left at 19:37ZFuel upon start: 382,800 lbs.Fuel upon shutdown: 12,200 lbs.Maximum altitude: Fl410/ Jesper

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Guest SIX

Hey Ben,I have nothing to back that 24,000 lbs number up except PMDG. I appreciate you brining the rule book out, that was interesting to read and the next thing to do is truly figure out what the heck that means LOL. Maybe we can get a RW pilot out there to help us on the fuel issue. On the topic, great stats! Wilson HinesMy Blog: http://www.wilsonhines.com --------------------------------------http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/837438/3074.png

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Guest SIX

>im interested to see what your initial cruize level is>especially for the really long flights. On the flights i have>flown i have never flow over FL390 i guess this is where>detailed planning comes into play. My initial was FL290 and I went to FL310 within 100nm. Then to 330 in about 700. At half way I was a FL410 for the rest of the cruise. Normally I would have stayed at FL390, but I had a hard 40kt head wind and it was slowing things down. I ran a current Activesky plan report and it said FL410 was 10kts so I called for a change.Wilson HinesMy Blog: http://www.wilsonhines.com --------------------------------------http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/837438/3074.png

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Hello Wilson,In January 2006 I successfully did an ultra long-haul with 744 PAX version from Montreal Trudeau to Hong Kong Chek Lap Kok airport (CYUL - VHHH) a distance which is not even flown in real life with the Jumbo or any other plane variety or airline as far as I know (though there are flights from Toronto to Hong Kong with Cathay Pacific but I believe it stops over at Alaska to refuel and uses a A333).Here are my details:FLIGHT PLAN ROUTE: CYUL - UFX (260.0) - YIK(225.0) - YUX(117.30) - YSR(382.0) - CZ (408.0) ABDIR - ABDEG - KM(360.0) - BEMAG - EGANA - SHL(115.70) - VHHH.** AIRCRAFT DETAILS:ZFW = 443,968 LBS.PAYLOAD = 49,880FUEL = 377,456RESERVES = 39,100ESTMIATED LW = 483,068GTW = 821,424GTOW = 819,424I may have reduced fuel I don't recall but the flight had enough fuel with at least the minimum fuel left at touchdown (i.e. 24,000).EDIT: I had not used any special flight planner at that time and used just the FS2004 default flight planner/map. Now, I would have done the same flight using FSBUILD; hence the lack of airways and Pacific tracks in my FP.But this flight taught me how to plane fuel for distances which are a little beyond the typical "useful" range of the 744 because the payload had to be DRASTICALLY REDUCED so the take-off would be possible from Montreal where the longest runway is 11,000 feet.John


I love flying my "iddy biddy Jumbo"

 

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