Does anyone have both of these? How do they compare? PIC 767 is so superb but not in 2004. Maybe the PMDG 737NG would tide some of us over until ????

Probably better to ask this of the NG 737 users over at PMDG forum http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=136DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

the NG is actually quite similar as far as failures/systems etc go. very much the same. its still buggy though, and the fps arnt as good as pic....the vc is a joke, you need a P4 5 gig and a 1 gig vid card to run it smoothly, let alone fly it around scenery addons. PIC is a classic and always will be better than anything else, just somthing about it that i cant explain, that makes it better than the rest.as far as holding you over untill (or if) a pic patch comes along...i'd say it would. its working for me :Dhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/328522/siggyav1.JPG

PIC is better at least until PMDG gets some of the more ridiculous bugs fixed. (VNAV, INTC CRS, and lack of FMC DEP/ARR transitions are the showstoppers for me) For some reason, I'm not having framerate trouble with the VC - running it on an Athlon 3200+ w/ Radeon 9700 Pro, the VC is just as fast as the 2D panel - 20FPS locked in FS9. The VC is beautiful and certainly not a joke - once it's fully FS9 compliant and clickable, I probably won't use the 2D panels.Things that are better in the PMDG in my opinion:SID/STAR programming syntax - this is genius - once the transitions are in I'll be able to crank out all the procedures for an airport in a matter of minutes in what amounts to near natural language.ILS tracking/autoland - I can't imagine it getting any better than the way the PMDG does it. I've seen a tendancy in PIC sometimes for it to get off the localizer by a few dots left or right, never really could figure out what was causing it - the NG is right on the money eveytime I've tried it and it is very smooth.Hand-flying - Might get flamed for this, but I think the NG has probably the most realistic airliner flight dynamics out there. Everything feels completely right - takeoff roll, turns, climb/descent, landing roll is especially awesome, it's right on the numbers.Once they get the bugs totally fixed (which I've been assured by PMDG members multiple times they'll do everything necessary to accomplish) I think the NG might have a shot at PIC. By that point though, who knows - WELP may have already unleashed PIC2 on us and set all the other developers back another 3 years lol!RyanRyan

Sorry, I can't agree. While it does have good dynamics, the failures are not activated yet. That probably means you have to fork out another $40 for the -800. It doesn't have TCAS yet which to me is crazy for a new a/c for FS2002 and FS9. The IRS is currently inactive.I have no fps problems until I load something like FS Meteo and it seems to conflict with something cause then it slows to a crawl. Very weird as I can't figure out why that would happen.It has potential, but why did it take 3 yrs for someone to try to come close to the 767? Must be harder to do than we might think. :-)

:-erks .... they don't compare...pic models a 767,pmdg models a 737,quite a difference i believe.you could (note that i said "could" ! ;-) ) have thought of that yourself right?

PIC is a classic and always will be>better than anything else, just somthing about it that i cant>explain, that makes it better than the rest.Hmmm... That's interesting. That defeats the purpose of staying around then, cuz I wanna see progress. I agree that PIC is king NOW, but I am hoping something will dethrone it. Because if the "best add-on to ever come" is not coming to 2k4, I don't know... Plus, there will ALWAYS be progress, and all add-ons will be outdone eventually if this sim is to go on any further.DP

Hey DP,B767 PIC does almost everything the real B767 does and does it very well. Now if Eric, Wade and the rest of the Team can figure out how to program a cute 21 year old FA, in one of those short skirts with nice legs, who likes to fool around on layovers, and brings me a hot cup of coffee on those long flights, now that would be progress.Otherwise, it will be take a lot more than FS9 has to offer before I send this old girl to the boneyard!Good luck on your search for for progress..........

Well... PIC does well, I agree. But I wouldn't venture to say that nothing will ever be better, that's all I wanted to say. Because if things don't get any better, then the hobby will eventually become stagnant, won't it? Not really a diss at PIC, just a reality. New things will come which will outdo PIC (some have come out that already do so, depending on what you're looking for), it's just a matter of time.DP

DP,Look at it this way..................You can't beat the flight dynamics of B767 PIC, the FMS does everything but brings you a cup of coffee, it has a TCAS system, thanks Lee, nice add-on landing views and POSKY or IFDG models to fly around.It is a pleasure to fly this aircraft panel in VATSIM. She's as honest as they come. I know what to expect and trust it. This is as close to airline flying as you will get. VATSIM is great and keeps getting better as more pilots and controllers come online.You said: if things don't get any better, then the hobby will eventually become stagnant? Not really a diss at PIC, just a reality. New things will come which will outdo PIC (some have come out that already do so, depending on what you're looking for), it's just a matter of time.if things don't get any better , then the hobby will eventually become stagnant: I doubt it, as simulated airline flying will always be a challenge, a different day a different flight. Fly on VATSIM, download charts, fly from different airports, learn the procedures, DP's, SID,s, and STAR's. Buy some books or search the Internet for information on instrument flying procedures. Get involved with a VA, virtual airline.new things will come which will outdo PIC some have come out that already do so, depending on what you're looking for: What has come out that out does PIC? In what way, in your opinion, has this so called, out doer, out done PIC? Is it flight dynamics, performance, panel design, navigation systems.............???

Well said EdI`ve been flying PIC since it was released and can honestly say that it is the one heavy addon aircraft that I was happy with before or since.About the only thing that was wrong with it was the visual model but I don`t fly in spot view you know?I also did`nt see the nonsense,promises or excuses at any time on the PIC forum and it was a true learning experience as opposed to the hassles that are encountered on the PMDG forum.I guess it`s more difficult than most of us think to create a truly revolutionary addon the way that PIC has done and I think it has spoiled us and we tend to compare PIC to everything else and they come up lacking.Well maybe someday some developer will come up with an addon that measures up but I`m content for now in 2002/PIC.My two centsTed

PMDG is a really good product!I feels, sounds and looks like a REALLY REALLY good panel!BUT I can't fly it now, even though one of the patches are out...It seems like new faults were created with the new patch???Firstly it was the huge memory surge the panel created, that made it impossible to fly...Now the FMC refuses to calculate alts in the legs page, and the progress page has faulty info...Says that fuel at waypoints and dest is zero and the distance is something insanely far out...This means that Vnav is impossible...Again makes the aircraft impossible to fly...BUT before the FMC was almost as good as the PIC one!like 95% so it's REALLY good!And the flying is much better than the PIC air file, I mean it flies like a charm...Smooth guages I mean it feels and looks and even SOUNDS like you are in a real aircraft!That is why I am so sad that I can't fully fly the thing yet :(Boaz...

BoazWow....Talk about contradicting oneself.So in other words you are saying that as long as it looks and sounds good but the systems either are`nt implemented or are`nt working right that`s enough for you?Wanna buy a bridge?;)Ted

>Smooth guages I mean They are smoother than PIC's but still fall short of Flight1's Meridian gauges which are totally smooth. Michael J.

Ed:Let me start by saying, I am about as involvedd as you get... That's not the point. If the add-on barrier isn't pushed it'll be boring regardless.Now, I see I am kind of talking to a wall here, since you continue to claim PIC is perfect. I understand you are a fan and all, but every add-on has a lifespan, even PIC. You are not looking out, you're only looking in, blocking everything out since you consider PIC to be unbeatable. While you have a right to have that opinion, I think for your comments to be objective you need to validate them by telling me where PIC has not been reached (I will not say surpassed to avoid arousing another "PIC is perfect" argument). I'll give you my opinion on your comments as quoted below:"You can't beat the flight dynamics of B767 PIC"How do you know that? Do you fly 767's for a living? Are you certified to ascertain how a plane "feels" in a simulated environment where most variables to make the plane fly realistically are not available? I think that PIC has tremendous flight dynamics, but saying they can't be beat is going a little far. "the FMS does everything but brings you a cup of coffee"Actually, PIC's strongest point is the FMS, I love that aspect of the product. It has done great stuff there. However, I wouldn't be so quick as to underestimate the other developers by implying it can't be beat either." doubt it, as simulated airline flying will always be a challenge, a different day a different flight."If this was what made flying an airliner a challenge (along with your comment about joining a VA) FS wouldn't need to be upgraded every 2 years... :7 Think again."What has come out that out does PIC? In what way, in your opinion, has this so called, out doer, out done PIC? Is it flight dynamics, performance, panel design, navigation systems.............???"As you state yourself, in my opinion, PIC has been outdone in the following categories (I won't say who, since head-to-head comparisons lead to no good): - Gauge clarity and sharpness. - Electrical and pressurization system implementation (since we're being picky, I might as well point it out) - Bitmap quality, clarity and presentation. - Integration of side panels, overall look of switches, and panel perspective. - Sound implementation (this one being a VERY creative soundset, with sounds never included in any other package) - And finally, package extras (none were included with PIC)Now, I love PIC as I said earlier, there's no better simulation of a 757/767 flightdeck out there... But you need to realize, as zealous as you can be about PIC's achievements, the product is 2 FS versions old. I have no doubt if the WELP team get together and do a new PIC they'll throw the house out the window. However, SOME developers have done things individually better than they've been done in PIC. (understandable, since PIC is 4 yrs. old almost, and THAT is what you need to realize) Since you've stirred down to a technical level, I listed them above. Anyways. The add-on is great, so I don't see the point of all this. :-lol To each his own... I think I've made my point, so I rest my case. Good day.DP