Hi Jon,Actually. I'm not wrong :). I'm sure I could find the correct ref. number in the AOM as well, but as I'm lazy right now a quote from b767.org will have to do. And I know it's like this."Altitude Hold (ALT HOLD) On pushing the Alitude Hold switch, ALT HOLD appears on both ADIs and the AFDS maintains the altitude at which the switch is pushed. Altitude Capture is a sub-mode of Altitude Hold."The reason why the double tap is used is just this. When they press it at 12500, the plane starts to level off AND would eventually SEEK the altitude at which the mode was engaged. Now, as they approach 12000 pressing it AGAIN will make it HOLD the 12000 and as the a/c is already levelling off it won't have to climb back up. If ALT HOLD would hold the altitude after leveloff, what use would the double tap be ? Anyway, HDG HOLD works differently. It will not seek back to the HDG when the sw was pressed, instead it will smoothly rollout and not care what the resultant heading is (depends on the bank angle, wind etc.)regardsTero

I have to take issue with your statement that PIC v1 was, as you put it, "crammed with bugs". From the very beginning it stood out as being singularly bug free. Since its release NOTHING has come even remotely close to being that bug free upon initial release.Perhaps you can enlighten me on this multitude of bugs you mention?Regards,Wade Chafe

Murf,I agree and disagree with you.I agree that this is not the place to vent about other products, nor is this the place where to "post stuff that gets deleted elsewhere" ;) lol!But... The PMDG project is something that the community (and I'm sure many PIC users as well) has waited. And due to the fancy advertising the NG has gotten, it has become an interesting project, to say the least. People expected a lot from it.Now, as PIC767 wrestles in its own series among payware aircraft, it's only natural to make comparisons. People are trying to get explanations for the fact that the NG did not meet their expectations about it. People want to know the "truth" behind this. Think about it, PIC forum would be THE place to discuss it (I'm saying this on behalf of others, not me); the people here are technically oriented, know a lot about everything, don't certainly make fun of simming, and spend their evenings doing something else than flying the DF C310 under bridges upside down. These people are serious. And you know what that means. It's something that's the core of the Godfather saga as well. Pure and simple: respect. Others respect the enthusiasm and expertise that is found amongst PICers. Of course there have been a few rotten apples here and there to blame this forum for being an inside "clique" and all the #### like that. To each his own. Can't please everyone now can we :=). My point is that PIC has taken a position of a reference product of somekind. It's something that everything else is compared to. Both the PIC767 AND us users of it are respected to the degree that people are coming to PIC forum and writing "why my NG737/DF737/RFPP747/PSS777 is doing this and that" to basically get an answer.We have to stand up for the challenge. IF PIC767 will NEVER get its successor, then we just have to be glad that we could be a part of something that in effect is a LOT bigger than what the average Joe does with his FS. For God sakes, because of PIC I'm building a full-sized B757 simulator with two buddies. The man who has flown THOUSANDS of hours in VATSIM is one of our regulars... Because of PIC767 I could fly a B757 levelC simulator without a problem! Because of PIC I have read maybe thousand pages of official B767 training material, and I can use 90% of it in the PIC. AMAZING! This is not your general discussions chitchat about boring and "long ago learnt stuff", this is the experts' place :).PIC really rules! Maybe not forever LOL, but we'll see what happens ONCE PICv2 is released :). I just yesterday said to my girlfriend while driving home from work that "if the WELP guys were to release a FS2004 PIC and it had all the goodies that I know have been in the works, I think I would just think that I've died and gone in heaven".Sorry for my rant.. and this wasn't specifically aimed at you, you just happened to be there :).regardsTero

Ted you show your true colors to all here, and YOU don't speak for the community pal or PIC simmers. Just who you think you are is the real question? Where is your contribution except for your constant whining and complaining? I would gladly pay you 40 bucks for you to go away...[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith [h4]P M D G 7 3 7 NG[/h4]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/mineimage.jpg [h3] Realism on the horizon [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Look,Yes PMDG screwed up big time releasing the product in the state that they released it in. I bought it within 10 minutes of it being posted and was as horrified as anyone at the VNAV problems, INTC CRS bug etc... However, in my personal experience talking to the members of the PMDG team and in seeing them work toward solutions to the problems, I am NOT worried about them abandoning the NG before they get it right. Am I perturbed that I paid $40 for a product I didn't really touch until the SU1 update several months later? Heck yes I am, but would bashing the developers and defaming them everywhere I go change anything? I don't think so - instead I'm trying to help them find, contain, and fix the issues - I desperately want this airplane to be good, it's got way too much potential not to be. The glass displays are among the best I've ever seen, the flight model feels amazing real handflying, and the visual model is absolutely outstanding, it's soooo close to being where it should be. On top of this, everyone forgets that PMDG did produce what were by all accounts the best airliners made for the Fly sims - I didn't own them personally, but I've been told they came very close to PIC-level in terms of functionality and completeness. The NG is PMDG's first MSFS design and while some of the blame certainly lies with them for releasing before it was ready, I am willing to give them a certain amount of leeway because of the fact that they're doing this on the fly with no prior MSFS experience. I did suggest to them that they offer a substantial discount on the follow-on 800/900 series to customers who had bought the NG in it's bugged state and they readily agreed. And before anyone pipes up with "PMDG marketing dept" or any of that crap, those who know me here know that I buy pretty much every major payware addon that comes out - I have no more loyalty to PMDG than I do to DF, Flight1, Wilco, PSS, etc. I'm calling it as I see it, and based my experiece with the PEOPLE behind PMDG, I'm confident that they're going to get this right. I won't defend their premature release of the product, but I also will not stand by and let people cut down their efforts to make things right, which is obviously not easy.Ryan

"Do any of you guys know a 767 that does not have a BANK limiter? Or when you hit the ALT HLD button the aircraft does NOT level off where you PUSHED the button? "I think we must have different products, Randy.One of the first things I found with PMDG was that in VNAV descent, when I pushed the ALT HLD button, the aircraft didn't even think about stopping... It continued on its merry way. At the time I put it down to thinking maybe the 737 A/P behaves differently to a regular Boeing... but now I know better.On a more serious note..... I was getting pretty frustrated with the 6 minute PDGM boot up time.... so I decided to go for an extra 256MB of RAM to see if that would help. I opened up my computer case to see what sort of RAM card was fitted. Couldn't read the label in-situ so I pulled the card out. I re-installed as I thought it came out, but managed to insert it back to front (impossible to do according to the motherboard manual!). When I powered up my computer, the computer case ...and the room... suddenly filled with nauseating smoke... with the RAM contacts clearly glowing. This morning, I took my computer to a repair place. The repairman put a new chip in another slot and booted the computer up. It worked OK on the bench so I paid my $105 and took my computer home. At home it wasn't long before my computer started playing up... unable to run music programs, unable to run anything on FS2002 other than the default Cessna, then, finally, after a couple of total computer crashes and about 10 Windows error messages... I gave in.If you're wondering how I'm writing this message... It's on my laptop (which, fortunately, doesn't have enough Hard Drive space for PMDG's wonderful products).Thanks to PDGM's program, it looks pretty much like I now have a totally useless 9 month old $3000 computer... as well as a bill for $105 (plus U$45 for the 737NG on my Visa)Still feel like defending PMDG?Reegards.... and goodbyeIan.

Sorry to hear that Ian, I know you have had some problems and no I cannot defend against that. I will say that I sure hope you don't stop coming to the forum, I really enjoy yours posts and insight as I am sure many others do too. Regards,[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith [h4]P M D G 7 3 7 NG[/h4]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/mineimage.jpg [h3] Realism on the horizon [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

RandyJust go back to testing your wishware and thinking up new excuses for PMDG.It`s what you do best.Oh and by the way I do contribute.I will reply to any thread that anyone posts in regards to buying the NG and will voice my opinion and if I can convince just one simmer not to buy your product before it is fixed right in the unforseen future I feel that I have done someone a favor.That`s how strongly I feel about the poor quality of the NG from release to the present.If you post behind me and try to play these discreditation games with me I will bring to light your affiliation with PMDG and that you have a vested intrest in what happens in regards to the NG.Now you need to understand that I would have been more than happy to enjoy flying the NG and not waste time in these pissing contests but the fact of the matter is that PMDG and by affliation you have made it so.I for one am tired of the release crap that payware developers are throwing at us and someone needs to speak up.That would be me.I won`t go awayTedOh by the way I notice you did not respond to this fellow.Are you afraid to tell him the bad news that a full payware version of FSUIPCis required to operate the NG properly in 2004?Funny I don`t see that anywhere on the PMDG website.I`m sure though that you have an explanation for this as well.http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...15057&mode=full

Post all you want Ted, See it's like this, you keep causing trouble and I don't recall you around here for very long, you have not earned anyone's respect, these forums (not just PMDG's) are private and you don't have all the freedom to post whatever you desire. You can state you don't like PMDG till the cows come home but cross the line and trust me you will be posting on Neo Pets... I am done with you.[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith [h4]P M D G 7 3 7 NG[/h4]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/mineimage.jpg [h3] Realism on the horizon [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

Randy"but cross the line and trust me you will be posting on Neo Pets..."Ah now come the bully tactics eh?Oh I`m sure that you have the power to get my account deleted of that I have no doubt.You see I`ve been around alot longer than you think and I know that the payware developers determine where that line that you speak of gets drawn.I do however find it interesting that you need to threaten me.I guess I`ll give my opinions and hope for the best won`t I?On another note to keep this ontopic is the fact that PIC as opposed to the PMDG/NG does not require the use of FSUIPC and for that I salute the PICteam for going the extra mile.It may even contribute to the fact that PIC in general runs better than most sims in it`s class as it interfaces directly with FS and cutting out the middleman so to speak.I wonder if there are any thoughts about this?TedRandyAll threats aside you have not answered this one as posted previouslyhttp://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...15057&mode=full

Come on guys, take it elsewhere.Lee Hetherington (KBED)767PICRealism already here ;-)

LeeLOL Ok by me.I like your sig.;)Ted

>You want to bash/praise/get support for a product other than>PIC? Then there are other forums more applicable to these>needs.>>The Pro-PMDG crowd and the Anti-PMDG crowd have used this>forum as somewhat of a battlefield.>>I purchased the PMDG 737 and I happily use the PMDG forum to>post my problems/praises.But you seem to have forgotten what question started this whole thread:"Does anyone have both of these? How do they compare? PIC 767 is so superb but not in 2004. Maybe the PMDG 737NG would tide some of us over until ????"If he had posted his question on the PMDG-forum someone would have given him the same answer as you did, I guess. On the other hand I doubt he would have gotten the right "expert" answers if he had posted his question on a more "general" forum...

Don't you all wish you had heeded the advice that I offered (reply #1 of this thread):Probably better to ask this of the NG 737 users over at PMDG forum http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=136Or, you could always eat cheese. Or spam.Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam wonderful spam wonderful spam spam spam spam...DS CVA3339 / UKD149System: Attlon 900 McW Hamster/Gerbilized Quantum Accessible 55Gig Iodized-Encrusted Four-poster with Mega-brill Farzenhuuven http://vatsim.pilotmedia.fi/statusindicato...tor=OD1&a=a.jpg

>Don't you all wish you had heeded the advice that I offered>(reply #1 of this thread):>>Probably better to ask this of the NG 737 users over at PMDG>forumlike this one, I guess:http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...15298&mode=full(title: #15298, "Hey, anyone seen my previous post ???"):-) :-) :-)