Yeah that's funny Michael, let's remember that next time you visit the forum eh? By the way, where is your 737NG product?[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith [h4]P M D G 7 3 7 NG[/h4]http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/196432/mineimage.jpg [h3] Realism on the horizon [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF2 MX 32 MEG and still runs GOOD!|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

LOL Vortex. Your posts are always a pleasure to read.

some of your opinions somehow really sounded rather "funny" to me...)

If his are funny, yours are hilarious .. come-on mate are your serious!?How can you compare two products which are soo different - you cant!I love both the 737 and 767.Does the 767 have a VC? It's got a landing view - but it was made long *after* it's release. Also the PMDG have guaranteed to support this aircraft for years to come - which is more than can be said for the other developers.Lastly, I always find it funny when all FS pilots talk about *realistic* handling dynamics and the like when the majority have never flown a real cessna let alone a 737 or 767!My point is don't compare the incomparable - it's better to have more rather than less superb add-ons don't you think!?Cheers.Dean

>If his are funny, yours are hilarious .. come-on mate are your>serious!?Never!>>How can you compare two products which are soo different - you>cant!Oh yes, you can compare different products by the so called "bugs counting-method". And the winner is...(you probably guessed it)... the PMDG 737. At the moment this is more of an early beta-version!What

Hi, True both are different and hence are not really comparable. Both are good, very good as a matter of fact. But one has to admit that despite it's "age", PIC is by no way over the hill...Despite not having a VC it is still an exceptionnal package ! The 737NG prosmises to also be a very good product...with time it will become even better...As for realistic flight models ...don't generalise too much, you'd be suprised by the amount of people who actually regularly fly real aircraft and visit this forum. Also don't forget that 1 of the developpers of PIC is a 767 driver for one of the US majors. I'm quite sure that he knows a thing or two about flight dynamics and how the 767 handles.Enjoy both...without moderation...if you have the time !!Happy landings

"Lastly, I always find it funny when all FS pilots talk about *realistic* handling dynamics and the like when the majority have never flown a real cessna let alone a 737 or 767!"Dean,Don't you think when a person mentions "realistic" in a post they may have the actual flight time to back it up?"Does the 767 have a VC? It's got a landing view - but it was made long *after* it's release."It has so much else going for it and besides who really needs one?"Also the PMDG have guaranteed to support this aircraft for years to come - which is more than can be said for the other developers."That's good because PMDG 737NG needs all the support it can get, and I'll leave it at that.............. Let me add, I don't own the product, but from what I've read, I'm glad I dont!"it's better to have more rather than less superb add-ons don't you think!?"That I agree with, but your might be stretching the point if you are adding PMDG 737NG to that catagory.ED

i wouldent compare them directly. they are 2 totally diferent aircraft. Realistic's, well, the 767 and 737 are equally realistc. some things the pic does better in, and vice versa. i dont know why people flame other aircraft. what if there was no pic? then what the hell would ya be flying? or if there was no PMDG? what if? ...*leaves it at that*http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/328522/siggyav1.JPG

Written by Gixxer 54"the NG is actually quite similar as far as failures/systems etc go. very much the same. its still buggy though, and the fps aren't as good as pic....the vc is a joke, you need a P4 5 gig and a 1 gig vid card to run it smoothly, let alone fly it around scenery addons. Also written by Gixxer 54"i dont know why people flame other aircraft."Hey Gixxer 54,Why are you flaming PDMG 737NG?Really, I like your sense of humor! ED

I wouldn't want to stir the pot, but..........I think that when we compare the PIC767 with the PMDG737, do you think it's fair if we compare the WILCO portion of PIC to the PMDG portion. I think if we compare what Wilco released and what PMDG has released I think that's a little more fair. Understand, PIC is a couple of years old, and is hampered by the fact that there was no VC, a horrible visual model, no TCAS, I think you get the point. What has made PIC what it is, are the mods that have been made to it. The addition of the POSKY 767 model, Lee's TCAS gauge, the landing panel views and others (don't want to forget anyone or anything) are what makes PIC great. Other than a patch to make PIC usable in FS2K2, I don't think I've seen anything from Wilco or the PIC team since then. Of course, I'm hoping that a NEW PIC is released for FS2K4 but, I don't think anyone knows for sure if this is going to happen or not.So when we compare, and it's only natural to do so, I think we need to compare what Wilco released and what PMDG has released. Then, acknowledge the 'improvements' to PIC that have happened over time.BTW- for my money though, I think once Oleksiy Frolov's Dash 8 receives it's FMS, THAT aircraft, will be the definitive aircraft in flight sim, but that's just my opinion.

>What has made PIC what it>is, are the mods that have been made to it. The addition of>the POSKY 767 model, Lee's TCAS gauge, the landing panel views>and others (don't want to forget anyone or anything) are what>makes PIC great. I strongly disagree. The additions are infinitesimal (and almost inconsequential) - without diminishing community's contribution - to the rest of the aircraft. What makes PIC great and what made it great from Day-1 was the absolutely solid foundation when it was released - practically bug free. The patch released subsequently by Wilco (or the PIC team) made only small improvements, fixed some minor issues, added some functionality. But the product was like a Gibraltar Rock from its conception - it's strongest asset to this very day. Michael J.

I couldn't agree more with Michael.PIC has been rock solid from day one, very much unlike the PMDG bird, unfortunately so...The PMDG bird is still unfinished, and nowhere near PIC767 quality. When I say quality it means that EVERYthing works like it should, no compromises here and there, and most of all: NO BUGS!Tero

"Why are you flaming PDMG 737NG?""Really, I like your sense of humor!" "ED"wow, i sure am glad i became apart of this comunity. not even a week here and sombody is arguing my points...anyways, Ed, all im saying is that, they are very similar, indeed, but they are 2 diff planes, so why even bother comparing them?http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/328522/siggyav1.JPG

Well...In my humble opinion the 737NG and 767 are VERY similar. Remember, they're both Boeings. A person who has flown a 737NG will feel familiar in a 767 cockpit instantly and vice versa. The differences are there, but we're not talking apples and oranges here. The basic concept is the same, and I seriously find it hilarious that some people here are telling, that these birds should NOT be compared. What a laugh! Remember: We are NOT comparing their wing area here, nor their engine nacelle diameter. We are comparing the overall functionality of these two aircraft, and the detail that is (or is NOT) found in them. This comparison can surely be done, without a doubt!It's no use arguing if the NG's FCCs are powered by different AC bus, or if the isolation system in the aircond is a bit different. Those are just small details (that SHOULD be done right however!)Thing is, the NG does not stand a chance (at THIS point) when compared to 767PIC. Too many small details are missing, there are annoying bugs, and the overall realistic feel of the aircraft is missing. It's as if almost everything is 50% done; manuals are not complete, FMC is not complete, navdata is not complete, the panel is not complete as a whole... too much things left hanging when they released it. Besides, it doesn't even model the things PIC modelled years ago. Sure, they say "in the 800/900". But how long do we have to wait for it ?To say that there have been numerous B737 pilots testing the bird out, is nothing to me. Several real pilots don't know a rats #### about how to debug computer software, and it's OK too. The aircraft was so FULL of bugs upon release, that I was seriously disappointed... I SUSPECT that there will be a new PICv2 out, that is relatively bug free, BEFORE PMDG even gets the 600/700 sorted, much less get the 800/900 done and sorted.Might sound harsh, but it's not to offend PMDG. I respect their endeavour. But becoming a $40 beta tester is not what I expected. I actually don't fly the plane at all... why bother, it doesn't meet my standards (YET).Tero

Well said TeroI could not agree more.Not only does the NG not stand a chance in hell against PIC but the whole PMDG thing is a fiasco.Funny though that there are folks over there that are asking that we respect PMDG and ask on bended knee for improvments that should never have been an issue in the first place.UNBELIEVABLE!!!Well all I can say is that I hope you are right about a new version of PIC as it`s the only thing that will get me over to 2004.Ted

"wow, i sure am glad i became apart of this comunity. not even a week here and sombody is arguing my points...anyways, Ed, all im saying is that, they are very similar, indeed, but they are 2 diff planes, so why even bother comparing them?"Gixxer 54,First Welcome to the Forum..........There's a lot of great information on it and search any topic that you need help with. If you can't find it, just write a post and help will be on its way quickly."so why even bother comparing them?"There's nothing to really compare, it's like apples and oranges. I just tired of hearing how good PDMG 737NG is or going to be on the B767 PIC forum!ED